This is not a flame Ray, I hope this helps show how tough it is to make an
index, and why we feel it works and most feel it is fair the way it is run
here.
Also, the RTP we use is based more on smaller lot events, it is posted on the
Chicago Region SCCA site, as well as TSSCC and WAI who all use these numbers.
At our events, the top cars are closer on RTP than they would be on PAX, so
we feel it is working better for our smaller, non concrete sites.
Check out the numbers at
www.tsscc.org
The results of the last TSSCC/WAI event is also there.
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 02:40:26 EDT
From: RacerRay52@aol.com
In a message dated 5/11/99 1:42:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
msirota@isc.upenn.edu writes:
<< I don't understand your dislike for the annual revisions of the PAX
index (and every other popular index system).
The index is an approximation based on limited data. Every year, there
are changes in classing, and there's also more data. Doesn't it make
sense to revise the index periodically? >>
....................................
<< The index changes partly because at the national level people often
change cars to get the hottest thing for a particular class. If I ran at the
National level and changed cars a lot I wouldn't be bothered by a changing
PAX because I'd be buying whatever car it took to keep up. Heck, I might even
be the cause of some of the changes if I ran Nats. >>
Very positive thinking here, but not totally true. Just a guess here, but if
you were to set the index from winning nationals, you would probably feel the
index was unfairly bumped up just cause you had a good run, and the others
didn't. Just ask some of the people who have done it. Get that killer winning
run, and for the whole next year, you have to be able to do it at every event
to get overall club points?? What if that fast run was a bit of good luck?
New drivers come into classes with a different car, and show that maybe there
is a better car for a class. Or a car and driver who has been an also ran got
better or fixed his setup, whatever the case, this new hot shoe wins, and the
next year the index is adjusted to bring the new hottest car in class back
even on the index. Or in some cases a car is re-classed and the index is
changed to reflect the move. In any case, the reasoning behind adjusting the
index is to make it as good as they feel they can for a given season.
<< To use that sort of index for a local street tire class, one purpose
of
which is to provide a low cost place to run, just doesn't seem a good fit.
People who run in a local street tire class are not buying a new car every
year in order to have the hot ticket. To do so would defeat the purpose of
trying to have a low cost class. So you have this constantly changing goal
which is based on absolutely nothing that has to do with the cars running in
the local st. tire class. >>
So what if your club locks in an index, and then a new guy comes with a
faster car in a different class and them blows you away? If you were using
PAX, he would have gotten a harder number this year and you might have been
able to beat him. What if a new guy shows up in some Porsche in SS and
destroys the class next year, and the SS index gets bumped for it? That SS
car in your region will then have a harder time chasing your HS index factor.
In the WAI series, they split their street tires into front drive and rear
drive. This way they are indexed using RTP (Rick Ruth calls it "Racer's
Theoretical Performance" now) but only scoured agains cars driving the same
tires, except they put all wheel drive with the rears. There are G-stock cars
on both sides, it is interesting to see. The results are close, with the top
cars usually within a few 10ths. At the last event, we had 47 street tire
cars total, and a hot shoe in a Porsche did destroy the index. Pulling a .429
win on a 60 second course. That was a HUGE win for our local ST classes.
second was also quite fast, but 3rd thru 14th (12 cars) were all within 2
seconds. In that group the classes were BS DS ES FS GS and HS. And 15
trophies were given out!! Top 1/3 of the class. I don't have who was frnt or
rear drive, so I put them together for this comparison.
The index has to be a changing thing unless everyone stops changing cars.
What happens if the new Celica comes out and stays in EStock with 180 hp, and
one of your local street tire guys gets it and blows away the fixed index? At
least PAX (or RTP, or whatever) will try to adjust for the hottest cars in
each class.
It looks like you feel you are getting the short end of the stick because
HStock has been getting so fast lately. For next year, you may get a break
because it looks like several of the really quick HStocks are moving to
EStock. The indexes will shift to reflect this. I drove an HStock Celica ST,
it is amazing a car with such little power can go that fast. It turns and
stops so well, and all the power it has will not upset the chassis, so you
can go full throttle out of every turn with no worries.
Gary M.
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