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Re: Street Tire Handicap

To: autox@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: Street Tire Handicap
From: GSMnow@aol.com
Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 10:02:58 EDT
This is not a flame Ray, I hope this helps show how tough it is to make an 
index, and why we feel it works and most feel it is fair the way it is run 
here.

Also, the RTP we use is based more on smaller lot events, it is posted on the 
Chicago Region SCCA site, as well as TSSCC and WAI who all use these numbers. 
At our events, the top cars are closer on RTP than they would be on PAX, so 
we feel it is working better for our smaller, non concrete sites.
Check out the numbers at 
www.tsscc.org
The results of the last TSSCC/WAI event is also there.

Date: Wed, 12 May 1999 02:40:26 EDT
From: RacerRay52@aol.com

In a message dated 5/11/99 1:42:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
msirota@isc.upenn.edu writes:

<< I don't understand your dislike for the annual revisions of the PAX
 index (and every other popular index system).
 
 The index is an approximation based on limited data.  Every year, there
 are changes in classing, and there's also more data.  Doesn't it make
 sense to revise the index periodically? >>
....................................
<<     The index changes partly because at the national level people often 
change cars to get the hottest thing for a particular class. If I ran at the 
National level and changed cars a lot I wouldn't be bothered by a changing 
PAX because I'd be buying whatever car it took to keep up. Heck, I might even 
be the cause of some of the changes if I ran Nats. >>

Very positive thinking here, but not totally true. Just a guess here, but if 
you were to set the index from winning nationals, you would probably feel the 
index was unfairly bumped up just cause you had a good run, and the others 
didn't. Just ask some of the people who have done it. Get that killer winning 
run, and for the whole next year, you have to be able to do it at every event 
to get overall club points?? What if that fast run was a bit of good luck? 
New drivers come into classes with a different car, and show that maybe there 
is a better car for a class. Or a car and driver who has been an also ran got 
better or fixed his setup, whatever the case, this new hot shoe wins, and the 
next year the index is adjusted to bring the new hottest car in class back 
even on the index. Or in some cases a car is re-classed and the index is 
changed to reflect the move. In any case, the reasoning behind adjusting the 
index is to make it as good as they feel they can for a given season. 

<<     To use that sort of index for a local street tire class, one purpose 
of 
which is to provide a low cost place to run, just doesn't seem a good fit. 
People who run in a local street tire class are not buying a new car every 
year in order to have the hot ticket. To do so would defeat the purpose of 
trying to have a low cost class. So you have this constantly changing goal 
which is based on absolutely nothing that has to do with the cars running in 
the local  st. tire class. >>

So what if your club locks in an index, and then a new guy comes with a 
faster car in a different class and them blows you away? If you were using 
PAX, he would have gotten a harder number this year and you might have been 
able to beat him. What if a new guy shows up in some Porsche in SS and 
destroys the class next year, and the SS index gets bumped for it? That SS 
car in your region will then have a harder time chasing your HS index factor. 

In the WAI series, they split their street tires into front drive and rear 
drive. This way they are indexed using RTP (Rick Ruth calls it "Racer's 
Theoretical Performance" now) but only scoured agains cars driving the same 
tires, except they put all wheel drive with the rears. There are G-stock cars 
on both sides, it is interesting to see. The results are close, with the top 
cars usually within a few 10ths. At the last event, we had 47 street tire 
cars total, and a hot shoe in a Porsche did destroy the index. Pulling a .429 
win on a 60 second course. That was a HUGE win for our local ST classes. 
second was also quite fast, but 3rd thru 14th (12 cars) were all within 2 
seconds. In that group the classes were BS DS ES FS GS and HS. And 15 
trophies were given out!! Top 1/3 of the class. I don't have who was frnt or 
rear drive, so I put them together for this comparison.

The index has to be a changing thing unless everyone stops changing cars. 
What happens if the new Celica comes out and stays in EStock with 180 hp, and 
one of your local street tire guys gets it and blows away the fixed index? At 
least PAX (or RTP, or whatever) will try to adjust for the hottest cars in 
each class. 

It looks like you feel you are getting the short end of the stick because 
HStock has been getting so fast lately. For next year, you may get a break 
because it looks like several of the really quick HStocks are moving to 
EStock. The indexes will shift to reflect this. I drove an HStock Celica ST, 
it is amazing a car with such little power can go that fast. It turns and 
stops so well, and all the power it has will not upset the chassis, so you 
can go full throttle out of every turn with no worries. 

Gary M.

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