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Re: [Shop-talk] relationship advice, (it's shop related, really!)

To: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] relationship advice, (it's shop related, really!)
From: Chris Kantarjiev <cak@dimebank.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:02:57 -0800
A lot of good advice has been dispensed. Let me see if I can add 
something useful!

I've observed some traits about myself that I generalize to many guys, 
but I'm going to try to just say what I have learned about myself. If 
the shoe fits, go for it.

I've in several serious, long-term relationships. One ended in divorce 
after four years, one ended with her swinging her fist at me after three 
years (I was glad that she didn't pull a knife - she was *pissed*). The 
current one has been going on for 16 years and we're still insanely 
happy together - and a big part of that is because of what we learned in 
previous relationships (she'd been in several >5-year relationships - 
but she managed the end better and still talks to those guys :-)

0. My job is to please/care for/provide for her.
This is an observation that pretty much colors everything else; I think 
it's true for most (American) men I know, but I'm trying not to 
generalize. I'm supposed to be the provider, and I'm happiest when I'm 
making her happy. If what it takes for her to be happy is *not* 
something I enjoy doing, then there's going to be trouble. This 
observation colors all the rest.

1. Don't be a chameleon
I found that, in the early days of a relationship, I was so enamoured 
with her that I would ignore/set aside personal interests in order to do 
things together. I'd change behaviours or patterns. I'd give up favored 
activities. She might do the same, or not.

That only lasts for a while. At some point, I want to do the things I 
haven't been, and then there may be trouble. Better to be up front about 
those things.

2. You're not going to change, and neither is she.
Repeat after me.

3. When money is a problem, all your problems are money problems.
My divorce was, fundamentally, over money problems. We had very very 
very different outlooks on money - how to handle it, where to spend it, 
how much to save, how much to borrow. We had agreed early on to combine 
our finances, and I couldn't figure a way to back out. It was a disaster 
and a constant struggle. See lesson 2.

After that, I resolved to keep finances separate. Pat & I split things 
into hers, mine and ours - before we moved in together, it was strictly 
split and we "went Dutch" for pretty much everything. Now that we have 
committed mortgage, we have a house account into which we both dump 
money every paycheck, and a joint credit card. For a long time, the 
joint contribution was basically even; I got a big raise recently and am 
starting to put in more - my choice. Everything that's left over is 
personal, private, and doesn't need discussion.

This is really great. I mean, how can you buy your partner an 
extravagant gift if you're taking it out of the grocery money? It also 
helps that we have a very similar sense of what's in the "just do it" 
range vs what should be discussed before hand.

4. It helps if she shares your passions.
I was a moderately hard-core cyclist when we met, and continued to ride. 
We tried riding together a few times and she didn't really enjoy it as 
much as I do. I had been getting burned out, and instead of fighting it, 
decided to let it go - I didn't really like being away for half the 
weekend without her. But it was totally my decision - at that point (and 
to this day) riding wasn't that overwhelming.

Climbing, on the other hand, is - I often go away for days or sometimes 
weeks on a mountaineering expedition, and she's OK with that. She 
understands my passion for the mountains and we go rock climbing 
together - but she doesn't like playing in the snow or at altitude.

She, on the other hand, need the ocean. I enjoy going to the beach or 
doing shipboard things from time to time, and try to arrange them (we're 
headed off to a coastal rental next weekend). But sometimes she just 
takes off and drives to the coast on her own.

It helps a whole lot that we're both gearheads. She had been part owner 
of a couple of Ferraris in a previous relationship and had spent a lot 
of time scouring northern California for pre-55 VW Bugs in another. She 
was happy to help me wrench on the Triumphs, and was the impetus for 
buying a Morris. We were SCCA corner workers together for 10 years. This 
wasn't just luck:

5. Talk. Talk some more. Keep talking.
We'd both been through enough, and were old enough, and were (probably) 
resigned enough about relationship failure, that we weren't interested 
in playing games just to not be alone. We were very up front about our 
interests and the lessons we'd learned. It so happened that we had a lot 
of overlap; if it hadn't, I don't think the relationship would have 
lasted (other than a friendship) after the initial heat died down.

That "old enough" part continues to pay off - we (luckily) both have a 
similar sense of what is "small stuff", and seem very willing to just 
let stuff go by rather than spending weeks fighting about it. It helps 
hugely that we are in agreement about the basic issues, and about what's 
"fair". Many things are settled internally just because "it wouldn't be 
fair".

I used to sometimes get extremely frustrated doing car work, and would 
snap at her when she came into my view and asked questions. That wasn't 
OK, and it wasn't fair, and she let me know it. I felt badly about it 
anyway. We finally figured out that I get that way when I don't eat 
often enough! But if we hadn't been able to talk about it, one or the 
other of us would have just been pissed and sulky and "the cars" would 
have been blamed.

More recently, I've wandered into a hobby that she doesn't really share 
(amateur radio). She doesn't much mind that I'm out in the garage 
working on a radio, or sitting at my desk with the headphones on. I 
spend the occasional contest weekend sitting there for 36 out of 48 
hours, not doing laundry or other chores. That's OK with her - and I 
make sure that I catch up on stuff at other times. "Fair" really helps. 
She does stuff by herself, too. As someone else said, it's better to 
know that I'm in the garage instead of sitting in some bar.

Again, I feel very lucky to have found Pat and had it work out so well. 
Some of that is because I am trainable and learned from my mistakes, but 
some of it, I'm sure, was just dumb luck, and being at the right dinner 
party (where we met).
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