Pip, Ray, and Brian along with other Listers,
The following was received from Bob Clare, the MGCC Triple-M Registrar,
on the questions of Pas converted to PBs.
Lew,
Where to begin??????
Let's start with the somewhat doubtful experimental PB. This had a
chassis designated "XX" and an engine bored out to 939cc using PA block
1037AP apparently, though the car which originally had that engine still
exists in the hands of Patrick Gardner and I haven't had a chance to
check what engine it now has. Anyway, for your purposes I guess you can
ignore this vehicle.
So to the PB's proper - I agree that Terry Andrews article is very
useful, however, it contains an error or two including the first PB's
origin.
Terry said this was converted from PA 2086. It fact it was PA 2068. So
we
have:
PB Chassis No PB eng no Converted from
PB 0251 500A199PB PA 2068
PB 0252 - 0588 501-853A199PB first time production
PB 0589 - 613 incl 1012-1036AP* PA's 2188, 2196, 2203,2186,
2149, 2148, 2039, 2176,
2163, 2199, 2184, 2193, 2214,
2137, 1960, 2179,
2166, 2170, 2180, 2235, 2232,
2243, 2238, 2233, & 2229
in that order.
PB 0614 - 0711 848-938A199PB first time production
PB 0712 2/538A* PA 2146
PB 0713 - 0775 939-1000A199PB first time production
*Without going up to Abingdon I'm not sure whether these numbers were
all stamped on their blocks as ????A199PB or are as they appear here
which is what is recorded in the chassis and build book summaries which
I keep here for reference. They may appear in my summary records like
this simply because there was no room in the column space to put "APB"
so the clerical
folk left out the "PB" or the "B". I suspect that's the explanation
since
PB 0283, which originally had engine number 538A199PB, lost that engine
on 25/10/35. If it was re-used, then it would probably have been
numbered 2/538A199PB, or 2/538APB for short. Thus "1012-1036AP" above
should probably read "1012-1036A199PB" and "2/538A" should read
"2/538A199PB".
So Terry's numbers were correct, a total of 27 PA's were converted to
PB's.
So far as records show, all the converted cars used both the chassis and
engines from their respective PA parents except PB 0712. Its parent PA
had engine number 2422AP originally but lost that and had a strange
replacement numbered EX5978/2 at some point before the chassis was
converted. Its PB engine almost certainly came from PB 0283 as
mentioned above.
I hope that's helpful to all concerned with this debate.
Bob Clare
Registrar
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-mg-mmm@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-mg-mmm@autox.team.net]
On Behalf Of Pip Bucknell
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 9:24 PM
To: Ray
Cc: MMM List UK
Subject: Re: enough is not enough, or is it?
Guys,
Is that really the case. That is, were PA's converted to PB's.
The chassis was made as a chassis & supplied to MG. There must have
been
some internal numbering system as the guarantee plate was given the
chassis
number during manufacture & the engine number stamped on at a later date
-
presumably when the engine was allocated to the chassis.
So when was the PA chassis (that was converted to a PB) a car ? Or was
a
chassis that was designated to be a PA, re designated to become a PB
(primarily different gear box, engine & Radiator Grill along with
instrumentation.)
Did they really pull apart some PA's & make them into PB's.
As the guarantee period started when the car was sold, wasn't that when
it
became a PB - when sold as a PB rather than when manufacturing commenced
or
was finished.
Brian Kelly raises the issue that :-
"1935. July. PA 2068 converted to PB 0251.
> August. PB 0252 - 0276 manufactured.
Somebody else raised the comment that PA's started out as P's & became
PA
when the PB was thought up.
Well how early did PA get first stamped on Guarantee plate ? I have
seen
one PA 1668. Any earlier ones noted?
Regards
Pip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ray" <spook01@home.com>
To: <Kellmg@aol.com>; <mg-mmm@autox.team.net>
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: enough is not enough, or is it?
> Well, we know for certain that some PA's became PB's...
> Ray
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Kellmg@aol.com>
> To: <mg-mmm@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 8:41 PM
> Subject: Re: enough is not enough, or is it?
>
>
> > In a message dated 01/07/2002 8:12:30 PM Central Standard Time,
> > mgtom@bright.net writes:
> >
> >
> > > NO. The first PB was a genuine PB as were most of the early ones
like
my
> > > black PB0268.
> > >
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I always found Terry Andrews article titled "The P-Type- An
Evaluation
> from
> > The Works Factory Files." MMM year Book 1982, to be authoritative.
> >
> > If you don't have a copy, it reads,
> >
> > 1935. July. PA 2068 converted to PB 0251.
> > August. PB 0252 - 0276 manufactured.
> >
> > It, also, notes that the earlier numbered PA chassis 0589-0613 were
> > converted later. December.
> >
> > ????
> >
> > Brian.
> >
> > /// unsubscribe/change address requests to majordomo@autox.team.net
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