--===============0982867239181511612==
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<div>Michael-that is why I asked the question in the beginning, Where is =
the fuel coming from and what is the cure for the problem? I agree that the=
fuel is "atomized" in the throttle area and that would be the best =
condition to send it to the engine but this car is dumping fuel and I =
cannot find the mechanism to stop that flow. Suggested lighter nitrile =
floats are at the top of the list, if in fact my brass ones are bum. Bill =
Lawrence modified his intakes possibly due to fuel issues? The system=
on this early car (same as yours) is a bit "cruder" than the revised float=
bowl vent system (with no manifold drain?). And, I cannot see anything =
wrong the float setting as presently set.</div>
<div>The fuel is not coming=
out the jet with the key off and the float bowls full to proper level-it =
is as you said below the top of the jet. Float valves are closed. Its=
when the key is on and fuel pressure is applied that I am getting the =
overflow condition. I was hoping that someone else on the team has had a =
similar experience. Hank<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "Michael =
Salter" <michaelsalter@gmail.com> <br>To: "Hank Leach" =
<gradea1@charter.net> <br>Cc: "Healey team" <healeys@autox.team.=
net> <br>Sent: December 23, 2024 at 12:21 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: =
[Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube </div>
<div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">Sorry Hank but I think you have that wrong.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">In and SU carb,and for that matter almost every other =
type of carburettor, fuel DOES NOT pump out through the jet. </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">The fuel level, as mentioned previously, is controlled =
by the float chamber float valve to never actually be above the top of the =
jet. It is only the flow of air across the carburettor "bridge", where the =
jet is positioned, that draws fuel up through the jet to be atomized into =
the airflow and into the inlet manifold. </div>
<div =
class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: =
small;">This is all related to <a href=3D"https://www.google.com/search?=
client=3Dfirefox-b-d&q=3DBernoulli%27s+principle">Bernoulli's =
principle</a> which is the basis upon which all carburettors work.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; =
font-size: small;">If fuel is coming out of the jet when the engine is not =
running then the mechanism controlling the float level is not operating =
correctly.</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family: arial,=
sans-serif; font-size: small;"> </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family: arial,sans-serif; font-size: small;">M</div>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2024 at 1:37=E2=80=AFPM Hank =
Leach via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.=
net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Ah! A rebel in the crowd.=
I looked at a bunch of photos of 1953 100 engines on the web. Many =
are configured as mine with NO FLOAT BOWL DRAIN TUBES. The <em>later =
</em>engine setups have drain tubes in the lid. This includes the cars =
using H6 carbs (Lemans). Also, on these early designs there is a =
different carb adaptor. Part 1B1672 which has a lower drain in the =
casing<span style=3D"text-decoration: underline;"> up to engine # =
139915</span> (my engine 139563). Of course Moss, etc. only sell the later =
style products. but some books show the solid float lids and some show =
vented lids and some show a lid with a drain tube (air vent).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So, in theory the way the early system works; fuel =
is inlet from the float chamber and enters the jet thru a hole in the tube =
positioned between the two gland washers which are to keep the fuel intact.=
when the choke is pulled that jet hole is lowered to send in, as the=
British say..."a neat petrol supply" to start the car.</div>
<div>Now, if you turn on the key, fuel pumps in and is moved thru the jet =
into the throttle area and into the manifold. <span =
style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">Unless the engine is now =
turning</span> and suction from the piston is active, the fuel will run =
haplessly in the intake manifold and out the drain tube to the ground. So =
the important procedure in these early systems is turn the key and crank =
the engine <span style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">immediately</span> =
or it will overflow fuel down the drain tube. I'm here testing the =
operation of the carburetors in a static mode-its not going to do anything =
but spew fuel to the ground. Right?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The later design using a float bowl vent tube also send fuel into the =
manifold but without a drain tube the fuel will go into the engine, as the =
Moss PDF described, diluting the oil and washing the cylinders. Sounds like=
the best method of starting up is to crank the engine as soon as you hear =
the fuel pump click...I typically have waited until the pump stopped (float=
bowls full) before cranking. Live and learn?Hank</div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "WILLIAM B LAWRENCE" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:ynotink@msn.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">ynotink@=
msn.com</a>> <br>To: "Hank Leach via Healeys" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>, "Bob Haskell" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>>, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">gradea1@charter.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at=
9:29 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain =
tube</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: =
inherit; background-color: transparent;"> </div>
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; =
background-color: transparent;">I’d like to be able to answer that, =
but I have to confess I’ve modified the induction system on mine (I =
know, I’m going to Hell) and I’m a little fuzzy on the details.=
If memory serves (a doubtful premise) the float bowls originally had an =
open vent arrangement on the top with no drain tubes. The car was built up =
from several dozen boxes of parts, so that may not have been correct. About=
20 years ago I built a pair of H6s and installed those with drain tubes. =
The car is a bitsa anyway so originality is secondary, or maybe =
tertiary…</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: =
inherit; color: inherit; background-color: transparent;"> </div>
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; =
background-color: transparent;">Bill Lawrence</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; color: inherit; =
background-color: transparent;">BN1 554</div>
<hr style=3D"display: =
inline-block; width: 98%;">
<div id=3D"m_-6618822986480632876divRplyFwdMsg"=
><strong>From:</strong> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox=
.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">healeys-bounces@autox.team.=
net</a>> on behalf of Hank Leach via Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Sent:</strong> =
Monday, December 23, 2024 1:59 AM<br><strong>To:</strong> Bob Haskell =
<<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>>; richard mayor <<a =
href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>><br><strong>Cc:</strong> =
healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong=
> Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Thanks Bob-yes the Moss site confirms they have alternate=
nitrile floats and about $20 each. Looking at the diagram there is a =
drawing of the float chamber overflow AUC1866 (451-250) $24.99 each. =
I do not have these overflows on my float bowls (as Richard Mayor mentioned=
their location) Instead the early cars have silver vent caps and a red =
washer which allows air out and those two intake manifold copper drain =
pipes at the bottom of the carb intakes. There is a PDF note on that part =
which reads:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"These pipes are open to the =
atmosphere, for two reasons: first (and most important) they allow the fuel=
coming into the float bowl to displace the air in there so the fuel can =
reach its correct level in a timely manner. Second, if the float valve =
(needle-and-seat) should stick open (as they do when a bit of grit is =
trapped on the mating surfaces) the fuel will be piped out and down –=
away from the engine. If the <strong>fuel could not escape through the =
overflow pipe, it would pour down the carburetor throat into the =
engine</strong>. With that much liquid gasoline, not all of it will =
vaporize before the spark plug fires. The fuel that does vaporize will make=
the mixture so rich (as if the choke were engaged) the car will belch =
black smoke out the tailpipe. The engine will eventually flood and die.=
"</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The point here is that not having those =
overflows on the float bowls; the overflow is actually after the throttle =
plates on my car. I wonder how Bill Lawrence's early car is configured and =
if he has float bowl overflows or intake overflows? Is it possible that =
this is a clue to my delima? Trapped air? Hank</div>
<div>-------------------- <br><br>From: "Bob Haskell" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">rchaskell@earthlink.net</a>> <br>To: <<a =
href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">gradea1@charter.net</a>>, "richard mayor" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">boyracer466@gmail.com</a>> <br>Cc: "healeys" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024=
at 4:28 PM PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake =
drain tube</div>
<p>Hank,</p>
<p>I think the newest floats are made from =
nitrile rubber - nitrophyl, not plastic. Supposedly unsinkable.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<pre>Bob Haskell
Austin-Healey 3000 roadster registrar</pre>
<div>On 12/22/24 17:49, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>I actually cannot figure where all the fuel is coming from. In static =
mode-key off and float bowls at proper level-with dashpot and piston =
removed, no fuel is apparent (as Michael says about 1/8" below jet or as =
you say equal to float setting). However, with key on and carbs together =
it's a different story-fuel is flowing steadily. The suggestion that was =
made that we really need to have clear plastic float bowls has merit. I =
cannot tell if the brass float is pushing hard enough to shut off the peg =
on the valve. When held shut by hand its positive.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If the float is "heavy", then it will not effect enough pressure on =
the peg to stop the flow. This is why someone suggested plastic floats =
instead of brass. Fuel is the shut off mechanism. I have swapped float and =
needle valves from front to rear carb in hopes that the front one will now =
start leaking. That may be a clue to the issue. Waiting for a dry day (next=
year?) to test that theory.<br>-------------------- <br><br>From: "richard=
mayor" <a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noopener"> <boyracer466@gmail.com></a> <br>To: "Leach Hank" <a=
href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener"> =
<gradea1@charter.net></a> <br>Cc: "healeys" <a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener"> =
<healeys@autox.team.net></a> <br>Sent: December 22, 2024 at 2:23 PM =
PST <br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] overflowing fuel into intake drain tube =
<br>Hank,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If I read your post correctly, the =
fuel is coming out of the jet in the carburetor into the intake manifold =
and then out the drain tube. Not from the overflow tube on the float =
chamber. I’ll proceed with this assumption.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The level of fuel at the jet is the same level as that in the float =
chamber. That is the way these SU carbs are designed. That is why float =
level is so important. If fuel is flowing out of the jet before=
the needle valve shuts off the fuel supply at the float chamber then your =
float level is set too high. You need to close the float needle valve=
with the float at a lower level. Instead of using 7/16th as a guide, try =
1/2” and see if that stops the flow. But then you said you =
tried different settings. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Is there an obstruction that is preventing the float from rising all =
the way to the top to close the needle valve? Try a different float. =
Polish the post. Is there any wear in the fork or pivot in the =
casting that is not allowing the needle to move feely into it’s seat.=
I think that’s where the problem is. </div>
<div><br id=3D"m_-6618822986480632876x_lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
<div>
<div>Richard Mayor</div>
<div><a href=3D"mailto:boyracer466@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener">boyracer466@gmail.com</a></div>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div><br>
<blockquote>
<div>On Dec 22, 2024, at =
12:28=E2=80=AFPM, Hank Leach via Healeys <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.=
team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noopener"> <healeys@autox.team.=
net></a> wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>
<div> I have chased the cause of =
too much fuel exiting from the rear carburetor overflow of my 100 for years=
. These are H4 carbs-very simple design, but must be done correctly to =
perform. So I find that the jet is out of center and piston is sticking up =
above the flat about 1/8"-that would allow fuel to run into throttle area =
and out overflow drain tube.
<div> </div>
<div>No way to center jet on car. Remove carburetor-a 4 hour job- and clean=
and replace gaskets and gland washers-yes cork- and reassemble and center =
jet...now works perfect. Re mount carburetor and connect fuel lines-another=
4 hour job. Both carb pistons drop with a clunk at the same time.=
Turn on key- fuel pump clicking-overflow again leaking. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have reset the floats and float needles (brass) =
were replaced many times-that's not the issue. No fuel in float bodies-they=
are not leaking. I just cant believe its too much fuel pressure but =
then again, this is a British Car. </div>
</div>
<div>Float is brass but when shaked it is dry. I filled the float lid with =
carb cleaner while holding needle valve closed and no leaking. That's two =
places checked (these are unfortunately "new" parts) Now the next leak =
could be between the needle and jet if not closed off-also new parts-jet .=
090. Needles are QW as specified but i also have a set of ATs which are =
lean that I am tempted to try. Actually both needles are about the same at =
top .089, but ATs are a bit fatter at mid range. Problem is all testing =
stinks up the garage and creates an explosive atmosphere so best done =
outside in the rain.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I know some folks like =
Grosse Jets-but I don't-- I prefer the simple brass ones with viton tips =
which do work if pressure is applied by forked leg-also new, and set to =
7/16" or MORE. With covers off, both bowls are equally about 1/2 filled. =
Fuel pressure is a thought as it can push by the stops but its the correct =
pump and when key on clicks fast then slows to a stop... but then tick, =
tick which it should not do! Fuel is going out and down the drain =
tube to my swimming pool drip pan. Im tempted to measure the top of the =
needles to see if they are really at .089. Can't measure the new jet but =
its stamped "9" Maybe stick in a number drill to see if its round? Mind you=
, these carbs have about 125 miles total on them. As far as I know these =
are "genuine SU" parts-not Moss India knockoffs.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I really thought that the centering was the issue and took the carb =
off for that reason which cured the drop-each drops equally with thud. =
That's not the problem. Any suggestions? Someone says use plastic floats...=
Hank</div>
</div>
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