It would fall to you ONLY if you put him through all that to prove himself
legal.
If the bum is illegal as hell, you get all your bond back and the expense is
his nickel.
Which is how it has always been. If the protest incurs cost to prove
(teardown has been the most common, but not necessarily the only cost), then
the cost is borne by the loser of the protest. All were doing now is
acknowledging that the cost of deciding a protest may include some
dealership's shop time to look up and supply the needed reference.
If you were to protest that Ferrari, or that Mazda, for some engine
illegality requiring teardown, it would probably cost more to rear down and
rebuild that Ferrari engine than that Mazda engine -- but you pay that cost
only IF you lose the protest. It would be no different regarding
documentation cost.
What if you suspect the Porsche instead of the Datsun? Probably cost more to
tear down the Porsche, and to verify its specs. It might cost more to
verify the specs in the DP winning Miata than my ancient Spitfire. If you
want to tear down my engine this year it will cost you more than if you
wanted to tear down my old motor -- because the newer motor is the product
of a more pricey builder. Every class is likely to have cars that cost more
to verify, and to tear down, than others in the same class. All depends in
who the alleged cheater is and how much you believe in your case. The cost
must be irrelevant in the rule, but my be relevant as to whether you choose
to exercise it.
--Rocky
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Cone" <rickcone@bellsouth.net>
To: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; "Steven J Miller" <sjm@us.ibm.com>;
".Team.Net" <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals
> >>As for cost, that should come under the protest bond. <<
>
> I will have to disagree respectfully hear... Every protest costs the
same.
> Tear down bonds are essentially the same formula... hours to do job X
going
> rate, perhaps dealer rate... but..... but... but...
>
> It should not cost me more to protest a Ferrari in ASP for track or
> wheelbase then it would a Mazda RX7. Why should that burden fall to me
and
> not the person that *chooses* to drive a car with expensive (or no)
> documentation.
>
> (And this has been one of the better threads on .net in some time btw...)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>
> To: "Rick Cone" <rickcone@bellsouth.net>; "Steven J Miller"
> <sjm@us.ibm.com>; ".Team.Net" <autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals
>
>
> > Yes, Rick, I agree with you there. It should be the burden (initially)
of
> > the protestee to provide proof of legality. But in this era, it is no
> longer
> > reasonable to require that proof be personally owned documentation.
> > Therefore, if the situation arises, then the protestee must be allowed
> > reasonable time to obtain such proof -- and not be immediately DQ as has
> > been past practice (reasonable 25 years ago, not today). If necessary,
the
> > protested car can be impounded pending receipt of such proof.
> >
> > As for cost, that should come under the protest bond. If the protested
car
> > is legal and protestee had to incur expense to prove himself so, that
> > expense is borne by the protestor whether it be teardown expense or
> > dealership verification expense. If the car is illegal, protestee foots
> the
> > bill. That would mean the protestee buys the shop time, but gets repaid
> from
> > the bond, same as he buys the gasket set to rebuild the torn-down motor
> and
> > is repaid from the bond if he is legal.
> >
> > And in many cases, it will still be cheaper than acquiring the
> > documentation. And a helluvalot cheaper than everyone in the class
having
> > individual documentation when one car gets protested.
> >
> > --Rocky
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rick Cone" <rickcone@bellsouth.net>
> > To: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>; "Steven J Miller"
<sjm@us.ibm.com>;
> > <autox@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:00 AM
> > Subject: Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals
> >
> >
> > > >>But I'd hate to buy my car new today and then have to find one at a
> > > reasonable cost.<<
> > >
> > > I agree with you.. so if you don't need a shop manual, when there *is*
a
> > > protest... shouldn't the burden still be on you to provide proof of
> > > legality? Even if it means that you have to foot the bill at the
dealer
> > for
> > > them to look up the information?
> > >
> > > Its great to stand up and say its a financial burden, but the ultimate
> > > burden of proof for each car out there needs to be on the owner of the
> > > vehicle.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Rocky Entriken" <rocky@tri.net>
> > > To: "Rick Cone" <rickcone@bellsouth.net>; "Steven J Miller"
> > <sjm@us.ibm.com>
> > > Cc: <autox@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:12 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Subject: Re: shop manuals
> > >
> > >
> > > > The helmet I use every event.
> > > > The tires I use every event
> > > > Even the shocks (I don' need no steenkin' Penskes) I use every
event.
> > > >
> > > > That damn book just sits there and takes up space I could use for
> spares
> > > on
> > > > the off chance someone might protest me someday (I could wish to
worry
> > my
> > > > competitors enough to get protested).
> > > >
> > > > (My book isn't so big, but at least you can read it. What about
books
> > > that
> > > > are four feet long or in a media that needs a special machine to
read
> > it?)
> > > >
> > > > Costs have become unreasonable for those that are available, updates
> > > become
> > > > impossible, availability is iffy depending on what you drive.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Rick, the option is a better answer. Having documentation
should
> be
> > > > encouraged, but to DQ someone for failure to have it has become an
> > > untenable
> > > > solution. I'll have my book with me if only because it is the easier
> way
> > > > (since I've had it for decades, and I even actually use it to work
on
> > the
> > > > car.) But I'd hate to buy my car new today and then have to find one
> at
> > a
> > > > reasonable cost.
> > > >
> > > > --Rocky
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