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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Steve </div><div>Thank you.
great info.<br>Scott<br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Dec 25,
2013, at 12:03 PM, "Steve Kirby" <<a
href="mailto:skirby210@cox.net";>skirby210@cox.net</a>>
wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 8.00.6001.23543">
<style></style>
<div>Scott--</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You're right, you are going to get overwhelmed with opinions and ideas,
and
likely, most of them will be fine. I think prepping a car for a good
paint
job is a lot like being around a bunch of good cooks. They are all going
to have different ways to make the best marinara sauce, but I betcha in the
end,
they will all be great.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If you want, I once put down on paper, for a fellow Club member,
more-or-less how I've done it. But, I won't send it unless you want
it. Like you've already correctly observed, you are likely to get
overwhelmed.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The other thing I would "warn" you against is that I've often been around
folks who insist you must use "brand X's ____________". That's BS.
There's a lot of good companies out there, and as long as you are using
compatible, QUALITY products, it (IMHO), doesn't matter a hoot which brand you
use, and to an even more controversial opinion, you can even mix/match stages,
as long as you are following the advice of someone who knows what the heck they
are doing.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thus, my one "ABSOLUTE" bit of advice would be to get hooked up with a
quality auto body supplier in your area. Find the person who knows their
stuff, AND STICK WITH THAT PERSON. If you are like a friend of mine
who insists on shopping the best price for every little thing he needs,
including on-line, and drive to each of 358 stores in the area to save 3 cents
on a gallon of ________, then you will never build a good relationship/rapport
with a person who can tell you how to substitute certain things for the more
expensive things and save some real money, and can answer that question of " .
.
. why is my surfacer coming off" and those types of things. For an
example, I do like PPG paint products, but they are very expensive. If
you
believe the advice of some, then you should use EVERYthing PPG . . . gosh, PPG
abrasive paper, PPG measuring cups, PPG funnels, PPG lacquer thinner, PPG epoxy
sealer, blah, blah, blah. You will know you are doing it right, when the
CEO of PPG sends you a bottle of 50 yr. old Scotch for your birthday.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>However, a good supplier will tell you that you can readily subsitute
other
(even) less expensive PPG products for some of the prep stages. Or gosh
golly, even use a totally different brand of better surfacer, saving about $200
per gallon. I won't bore you with the names of what I use, 'cuz I live in
CA, and we have things you can't buy (and probably don't want to buy . .
.
. $$$$), and you probably have access to a wider variety of products, no
doubt at a reduced price.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>In the briefest note possible, I'll throw this out there, and then
everyone
else can whack it to pieces. Based on the fact you said you're already
down to mostly bare metal (Re-reading, this, it is far longer than I
anticipated, but I still consider it a BRIEF summary!!!! This is a
complex
topic, IMHO!!!!)"</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Use a self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer. No need nowadays to
use
a separate self-etching primer.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Do your initial repairs . . . . banging out, metal work, filling of
deepest/worse areas. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Re-apply the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer in any areas where you
may have exposed bare metal. The idea is <u>never </u>to have actual bare
metal . . . at this stage. If you've only got a few, very small bare
areas, you might want to buy some self-etching sealer in a spray
can.
Tis expensive, about $18 for a large spray can, but it beats, sometimes, making
up your spray gun, cleaning, etc.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Don't try and get the surface perfect yet. Use a good quality
filler,
if needed, and long boards or foam boards to around 120. The sealer
you've
applied thus far is really NOT "surfacer", it is not intended for a surface
finish, in fact, it is not even intended to be "sanded" at all. Don't
panic, you're no where's near done here . . . your filled repairs are still
rough, and you no doubt still have scratchs, maybe even some very small
dings.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Apply a good coat of a good quality surfacer. You get what you pay
for. Super cheap surfacer is exactly that. Do NOT buy anything that
claims to seal and surface (and cure cancer) in the same can.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Additional filler repairs can continue. If your repair is "almost"
perfect, just needs a "wee bit" more, now you move up to what is commonly
called
a "skim" product, intended to be put no more than a 1/16" or so thick, and
mostly sanded off. The beauty of these products is that they go on much
easier, and sand off so much easier. There are different "grades" of skim
products, I actually use a third, very fine one . . . like if I see an air
bubble, or a scratch. Don't fill these minor imperfections with your
"basic filler" stuff . . . .it is too thick, too heavy, and too hard to get a
fine surface when sanding. This is one of the biggest lessons I've
learned, in the fairly recent past. You might be saying "OK, why not just
use that "skim" stuff for the deep repairs?" 'Cuz it does not have the
strength of the good filler products. Most filler products have some kind
of reinforced fiberglass in them. One brand I would recommend is MarGlass
. . . for a deep repair, where metalwork just has not totally worked.
Normal depth repairs are done with a "regular" fill product, which your
supplier
can recommend. I have my favorites. You now commonly ready in
magazines that the entire car was skimmed. I don't do that, but I
understand why . . . </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Continue to apply surfacer as needed. You will keep moving up the
"grit scale", to around 280 or so "dry".</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Now, buy a spray can of "Guide coat", which you apply very lightly . . .
creating a speckle/overspray kind of coat. Do not try to save $8 bucks
here and use flat black spray paint. Did that once . . . not good.
Now, using around 280 or so, either a long board or long foam piece, sand
across
contours, with 2 - 3 good strokes. Immediately, you will observe the low
spots. How low? A tad bit? May be able to bring up with a
heavy application of surfacer. Miss a ding or much deeper? May need
to go back to filler or skim. I'm currently helping a Club member with
his
B. He had it professionally painted. Terrible paint job. I
didn't want to say anything, but in short, no one guide coated that car.
There are a dozen or so very visible dings just on the back end of the
car. Sad.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Repeat the above steps until, when you guide coat, with only 2 - 3
strokes,
it is perfect. Don't get "cute" and say "Oh, I can sand that black stuff
out of there!!!!" Sure you can, but you're only cheating yourself.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Should, at any point, you hit bare metal, hit it with self-etching, epoxy
-
catalytic sealer</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Once the guide coat is perfect, now lay in a supply of perhaps 320 (I
usually skip the 320 stage), and 400 wet-or-dry. Now, you proceed to wet
sand the car. An empty spray bottle of water is helpful. Lots of
water. When this stage is done, you go over the car with a good, strong
light . . . looking for scratches or other imperfections. Never kid
yourself that the color coat" will take care of it, or hide it. Actually,
color coat will make most imperfections look far worse. Any problems, fix
'em now. You can buy a "variety" pack of the various shapes of the "new"
foam blocks . . . highly recommeded.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Apply one final coat of self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer. This
stuff is the "new" magic. It absolutely allows your color coat to
bond. TRY to the color coat as quickly as possible to the application of
the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic sealer -- with some brands, like within TEN
minutes. Do NOT sand or abrade the self-etching, epoxy - catalytic
sealer--you do NOT want to scratch or penetrate the self-etching, epoxy -
catalytic sealer with anything like a scratch. Working alone, I find I
can't do this step "properly" (meaning that quickly), but it still seems to
work
OK. The PPG rep would probably say otherwise.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>One "trick" I might throw in here, is this: With the high cost of
good paint, I will use a lesser quality paint, of the same type and color (duh)
for things like the interior (all covred over anyway), inside fender wells, the
boot, the engine bay, inside/under the boot/boonet lids, etc. Thus, I may
only need 1 gallon of the really expensive stuff, and 1 gallon of the
other. A local company, which is becoming huge, and has a huge online
presence, is TCP Global. They make (I believe made by ValSpar .
. . now a much bigger player in the auto refinishing business -- having bought
out a few other companies recently) their own brand of polyurethane paint,
totally compatible with things like PPG Concept, at about 1/4 the price.
I
find it easier to spray and work with than the good stuff! I'm tempted to
do an entire car with it. We'll see . . . but I've already bought the PPG
paint for the Magnette . . . so whatever car comes up after the
Magnette!!!! </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Spray the color coat . . . the easy part, actually, You've done all
the hard work above. Put on plenty of paint (at least 3 - 4 "double"
coats), so you have plenty to color sand/buff.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Color Sand</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Buff</div>
<div> </div>
<div>We'll cover those two stages later!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Collect your First place trophy</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You might say "Wow, that is too much work. I'll just let a shop do
it." Sure, most folks do, and you can get some great jobs out
there.
What I've observed so often, is that naturally, you don't want to spend more
money that necessary, so the shop sounds good, and you go with them.
Sometimes, the results are fantastic, and sometimes they are
horrid. I've seen some great jobs at reasonable prices, and
I've also seen some dowright awful jobs, where folks paid
waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much money. There are some real craftsman
out
there, and there are some real hacks. If I was going to have a shop do
it,
I'd insist on seeing past customer's cars. Don't just listen to their
speel. I'd make sure they list what they are going to do,
step-by-step. I'd be dropping by often to make sure they are doing
it. I want to say you are going to get what you pay for, but that doesn't
always seem to be the case. I will say this: I've been asked to
paint other people's cars. I simply can't/won't. I'm way too slow,
and make mistakes. The cost of materials, for me, far exceeds what I see
people getting their cars painted for. IF I was to paint a Magnette,
which
I will be doing one of these fine milleniums, which did not need extensive
metal
work, rust repair or welding, I would start at $10,000. I know you just
flipped, but I think that is realistic for a really good paint job. </div>
<div> </div>
<div> . . . and Happy Holidays.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>#2SteveK</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px;
PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b>
<a title="scottewoolman@hotmail.com"
href="mailto:scottewoolman@hotmail.com";>Scott Woolman</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="zmagnette@autox.team.net"
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net";>List for the Z Magnette Group - North
America</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 25, 2013 10:43
AM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> [Zmagnette] Paint</div>
<div><br></div>At a risk of getting overwhelmed with opinions. Here is my
question. My MG is down to metal all rust and body is done. Should I
use
an acrylic etching primer then a sandable primer.
<br>Thanks<br>Scott <br><br>Sent from my
iPhone<br>_______________________________________________<br>Zmagnette
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</div></blockquote><blockquote
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