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The BMS was my first thought. In connecting to the battery posts to
start the car, you would be bypassing the BMS, so it wouldn't "know"
about the charge and would think the battery was still dead. But this
would have affected the Lexus (which had the dead battery), not the F150.
Other than that, I agree. I can't think of any reason it would cause
damage. Just don't put the two batteries in series.
- GeneG
On 12/1/23 06:32, Bob Spidell wrote:
> I got into a discussion on a Mustang forum when I posted I wanted to
> swap batteries without losing all my radio and other presets (I would
> have connected another battery in parallel). People on the forum
> brought up Fords's 'BMS;' which was new turf to this old dog. There
> are, apparently, some possible issues with this system (the Mustang
> has them too). In the end, I pulled an Elon--'F-it'--and just swapped
> the batteries like I always have and only lost the settings for my
> custom drive mode. I think it possible that some who don't understand
> the BMS may have started this rumor; I suspect you can damage these
> somehow but a simple jump shouldn't do it as you're not passing any
> current through it (unless you connect to a hot lead somewhere). The
> only modification to this time-proven technique--jumping a car--is
> you're now admonished to hook ground to the chassis somewhere instead
> of the common battery terminal, which I've always assumed was to avoid
> a spark which could ignite any lingering H2 gas.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A
>
> bs
>
> On 12/1/2023 4:22 AM, Donald H Locker wrote:
>>
>> And if someone can point me to a reputable site with information to
>> the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind.
>>
>> Thank you all,
>> Donald.
>>
>> On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H Locker wrote:
>>>
>>> I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is nothing
>>> (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can be "fried" by
>>> providing or accepting a jump, provide it's done properly (+ to +
>>> and - to -).
>>>
>>> The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the cables and
>>> clamps have significant resistance. That is the big reason that the
>>> "dead" battery needs to be connected for a period of time before
>>> cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec (longer in winter); not very long,
>>> but it really doesn't take much to bring a dead battery up to
>>> sufficient charge.)
>>>
>>> The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical systems are
>>> amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few of them. Protection
>>> is built in to every component against: over-voltage; reverse
>>> connection; shorts to ground; shorts to power. The battery itself is
>>> a very simple electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's
>>> difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly
>>> discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most common
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect properly (+ to
>>> + and - to -), there is almost no way to damage either of the
>>> vehicles' systems.
>>>
>>> Donald.
>>>
>>> On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair wrote:
>>>> I come to the well of knowledge looking for information.
>>>> My sister just emailed me about her having a friend jump start her
>>>> late model Lexis from his F150 pickup. He got her started and then
>>>> drove his truck to someplace and parked it. When he tried to start
>>>> it, it wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership and they
>>>> said his battery was fried.
>>>> In my sister's email she said that she has found out that you
>>>> shouldn't jump start a car made from 2000 on.
>>>> My question is why and how do you start a car with a dead battery?
>>>> I realize that the jumping car should be running, so that gives the
>>>> possiblity of too much current being drawn from the jumping car as
>>>> it's got a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out
>>>> well over 100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks like a
>>>> short circuit. Bad - lots of current!
>>>> So disconnecting the dead battery and putting it on a battery
>>>> charger to give it a more controlled charge should be OK.
>>>> But that's not easy to do in a parking lot.
>>>> What about these jump boxes, especially the little ones like
>>>>
>>>> https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true
>>>>
>>>> But that is supposedly capable of 1500A!!!
>>>>
>>>> I did a google search on the subject and found an article talking
>>>> about all the problems that you can have doing this. But the
>>>> article really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping or
>>>> the jumped car or both.
>>>>
>>>> So what is the collective knowledge about this? What am I missing?
>>>>
>>>> JohnT,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John T. Blair WA4OHZ    email: jblair1948@cox.net
>>>>
>>>> Va. Beach, Va   Phone: (757) 495-8229
>>>> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106) Â Â 75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)Â Â 48
>>>> TR1800Â Â Â 48 #4 Midget
>>>> 65 & 77 Spitfire  71 Saab Sonett III  65 Rambler Classic  65
>>>> Volvo P1800
>>>> Morgan: http://autox.team.net/morgan/
>>>> Bricklin: http://www.bricklin.org
>>>>
>>>> If you can read this            - Thank a teacher!
>>>> If you are reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!
>>>>
>>>> From Dennis Prager - The American Trilogy:
>>>> Â Â Â Â e pluribus Unum, "from many, one."
>>>> Â Â Â Â In God We Trust
>>>>     Liberty - the power of choosing, thinking, and acting
>>>> for
>>>> oneself; freedom from control or restriction
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Shop-talk@autox.team.net
> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.96
> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk http://autox.team.net/archive
>
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>
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<p>The BMS was my first thought. In connecting to the battery posts
to start the car, you would be bypassing the BMS, so it wouldn't
"know" about the charge and would think the battery was still
dead. But this would have affected the Lexus (which had the dead
battery), not the F150.</p>
<p>Other than that, I agree. I can't think of any reason it would
cause damage. Just don't put the two batteries in series.</p>
<p>- GeneG<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/1/23 06:32, Bob Spidell wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a2b4e839-63a1-4d53-8f95-b240316ee658@comcast.net">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
I got into a discussion on a Mustang forum when I posted I wanted
to swap batteries without losing all my radio and other presets (I
would have connected another battery in parallel). People on the
forum brought up Fords's 'BMS;' which was new turf to this old
dog. There are, apparently, some possible issues with this system
(the Mustang has them too). In the end, I pulled an
Elon--'F-it'--and just swapped the batteries like I always have
and only lost the settings for my custom drive mode. I think it
possible that some who don't understand the BMS may have started
this rumor; I suspect you can damage these somehow but a simple
jump shouldn't do it as you're not passing any current through it
(unless you connect to a hot lead somewhere). The only
modification to this time-proven technique--jumping a car--is
you're now admonished to hook ground to the chassis somewhere
instead of the common battery terminal, which I've always assumed
was to avoid a spark which could ignite any lingering H2 gas.<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A";
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_KmO-KaR4A</a><br>
<br>
bs<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/1/2023 4:22 AM, Donald H Locker
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e5384526-49a1-4fb2-bb8a-5df63705a81e@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>And if someone can point me to a reputable site with
information to the contrary, I'm open to changing my mind.</p>
<p>Thank you all,<br>
Donald.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-12-01 07:21, Donald H
Locker wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:bf47de2d-ae42-466a-9a86-4c4d03494b5d@protonmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>I think someone is pulling someone else's leg. There is
nothing (that I know of) in any post-2000 vehicle that can
be "fried" by providing or accepting a jump, provide it's
done properly (+ to + and - to -).</p>
<p>The "dead" battery does not appear as a short because the
cables and clamps have significant resistance. That is the
big reason that the "dead" battery needs to be connected for
a period of time before cranking. (I usually wait 30 sec
(longer in winter); not very long, but it really doesn't
take much to bring a dead battery up to sufficient charge.)</p>
<p>The protections on vehicle electronics and electrical
systems are amazing; I've helped design and test quite a few
of them. Protection is built in to every component against:
over-voltage; reverse connection; shorts to ground; shorts
to power. The battery itself is a very simple
electrochemical device that _can_ be damaged, but it's
difficult: freezing (-40F if charged; -20F if significantly
discharged); reverse charging; mechanical damage is the most
common problem.</p>
<p>Provided the jumper and jumpee batteries are connect
properly (+ to + and - to -), there is almost no way to
damage either of the vehicles' systems.</p>
<p>Donald.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2023-11-30 17:12, JohnT Blair
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:510083893.2718443.1701382371753@myemail.cox.net">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<meta charset="UTF-8">
<div class="default-style"> I come to the well of knowledge
looking for information. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> My sister just emailed me about
her having a friend jump start her late model Lexis from
his F150 pickup. He got her started and then drove his
truck to someplace and parked it. When he tried to start
it, it wouldn't start. He had it towed to a dealership
and they said his battery was fried. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> In my sister's email she said
that she has found out that you shouldn't jump start a car
made from 2000 on. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> My question is why and how do
you start a car with a dead battery? </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> I realize that the jumping car
should be running, so that gives the possiblity of too
much current being drawn from the jumping car as it's got
a good battery and an alternator capable of putting out
well over 100A! So the jumped car's dead battery looks
like a short circuit. Bad - lots of current! </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> So disconnecting the dead
battery and putting it on a battery charger to give it a
more controlled charge should be OK. </div>
<div class="default-style"> But that's not easy to do in a
parking lot. </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> What about these jump boxes,
especially the little ones like </div>
<div class="io-ox-signature">
<p class="default-style"><a
href="https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.walmart.com/ip/NEXPOW-Battery-Jump-Starter-1500A-Peak-12800mAh-Car-Starter-up-7-0L-Gas-5-5L-Diesel-Engine-12V-Portable-Booster-Power-Bank-Box-LED-Light/534414164?adsRedirect=true</a></p>
<p class="default-style">But that is supposedly capable of
1500A!!! </p>
<p class="default-style">I did a google search on the
subject and found an article talking about all the
problems that you can have doing this. But the article
really didn't say if these problems were to the jumping
or the jumped car or both.</p>
<p class="default-style">So what is the collective
knowledge about this? What am I missing?</p>
<p class="default-style">JohnT,</p>
<p class="default-style"><br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">John T.
Blair WA4OHZ    email: <a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:jblair1948@cox.net";
moz-do-not-send="true">jblair1948@cox.net</a></span></p>
<div class="default-style"> Va. Beach,
Va              Â
  Phone: (757) 495-8229 </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> 65 Morgan 4/4 Series V (B1106)
  75 Bricklin SV1 (#0887)  48 TR1800   48 #4
Midget  </div>
<div class="default-style"> 65 & 77 Spitfire  71 Saab
Sonett III  65 Rambler Classic  65 Volvo P1800 </div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<div class="default-style"> Morgan:Â Â Â <a
href="http://autox.team.net/morgan/";
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://autox.team.net/morgan/</a>
</div>
<div class="default-style"> Bricklin:Â Â Â Â <a
href="http://www.bricklin.org/"; moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.bricklin.org</a>
</div>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<p>If you can read this            - Thank a
teacher! <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">If you are
reading it in English - Thank a Vet!!</span></p>
<div class="default-style"> Â </div>
<p><span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">From Dennis
Prager - The American Trilogy:</span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â e
pluribus Unum, "from many, one."</span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â In God
We Trust</span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â Liberty
- the power of choosing, thinking, and actingÂ
for </span> <br>
<span
style="font-family: tahoma, arial, helvetica,
sans-serif;">Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â
oneself; freedom from control or restriction </span>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre"
wrap="">_______________________________________________
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href="mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net";>Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>
Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk</a>
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href="http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
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