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Hi all,
=20
FYI, Norm Nock did a nice write up on the thermostat issue in his =
=E2=80=9CTech Talk=E2=80=9D publication complete with diagrams. He =
notes that a =E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D (back in 2009) thermostat was =
available with the sleeve and it moved down as the operating temp was =
reached. I bought one from him at British Car Specialists and have had =
no issues at all. No idea if BCS still carry them. It is worth buying =
a copy of Tech Tips too =E2=80=93 lots of interesting information there!
=20
Cheers, Mirek
=20
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Alan =
Seigrist via Healeys
Sent: March 29, 2022 10:00 PM
To: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Cc: Healey list <healeys@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Coolant bypass port in the head - 6-cyl
=20
Hi Bob -
=20
the Robertshaw thermostats are nicely made, but they open the wrong way =
around... let me do some measurements as I am dealing with the cooling =
on my BJ8 now. I have a robert shaw... as well as another sleeved =
thermostat as well as the bellows.
=20
Best,
=20
Alan
=20
On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 9:54 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net =
Years ago, someone--might have been BCS, but I'm not sure--was selling a =
Robertshaw thermostat with a brass sleeve soldered to it (Robertshaw =
thermostats have a center portion that moves up and down). The one I =
bought was 160deg; I desoldered the sleeve and soldered it to a 180deg =
Robertshaw. I bought one of the original, bellows-type from =
Kees--whatever happened to him?--but never installed it; heard they were =
the 'fail closed' type, which could turn a minor failure into a =
catastrophe (still have it around somewhere).
https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-330-160-degree-therm=
ostat
On 3/29/2022 6:35 PM, Alan Seigrist via Healeys wrote:
Harold -=20
=20
Thank you, now I understand how the whole thing is supposed to work. =
The sleeve works to cut off the bypass so that hot water is not recycled =
into the system after it warms up. FWIW, this only applies to the 6 =
cyl, the 4 cyl doesn't have any sort of bypass.
Yes, I think it would be great if you could share with us which =
thermostat to purchase and how to modify it.
=20
Best,
=20
Alan
=20
On Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 1:28 AM Harold Manifold via Healeys =
<healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
The coolant bypass plays an important but problematic role in the =
Healey=E2=80=99s cooling system. When the thermostat is closed coolant =
returns to the water pump via the bypass. See the red circle on the =
attached picture. The bypass is important for three reasons: its allows =
the coolant in the block to continue to circulate and come to a uniform =
temperature before the thermostat opens, it prevents hot spots that =
could develop from stagnant coolant and it prevents the water pump from =
dead heading.
=20
The problematic part is in the original design the bypass was closed by =
a sleeve on the bellows type thermostat when the thermostat opened. The =
original Bellows type thermostat used a volatile liquid and were not =
reliable and were not suitable for the 7 psi cooling system pressure. =
Wax type thermostats are much more reliable but they do not have a =
sleeve to close off the bypass. There may be some expensive wax type =
replicas of the original bellows type.
=20
After looking at many options the best option for a reasonably priced =
wax type thermostat with a sleeve to close off the bay pass is the =
modified Land Rover Series ll thermostat. If anyone would like to know =
about modifying the Landver thermostat let me know. It can be easily =
done.
=20
Harold
=20
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Coolant bypass port in the head - 6-cyl
=20
The coolant travels from the bottom of the radiator to the water pump =
into the block then from the block into the head then through the =
thermostat to the top of the radiator.
=20
M
=20
On Tue., Mar. 29, 2022, 11:57 a.m. Elton S, <eps2660@gmail.com =
As a related question, what is the direction of flow through the =
radiator - up from the bottom or down from the top?
Elton =20
BJ7
=20
On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:44 AM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com =
As Gary points out, and far as I have been able to figure out, the =
bypass passage is open when the engine is cold, the idea being that by =
"short circuiting" the radiator the coolant in the heater and bypass =
passage will warm up more quickly and the heater will produce heat more =
quickly.=20
We had a slew of the "shrouded " type thermostats that I bought when =
Smiths Canada closed down. The part number was 43570/28 and we used to =
sell them to customers who reported overheating problems.=20
I stopped promoting them as a potential solution to overheating issues =
after being taken to task by a customer who did an extensive study of =
the issue and proved, at least to my satisfaction, that they improved =
cooling not one iota.
=20
M
=20
On Tue., Mar. 29, 2022, 10:47 a.m. Alan Seigrist, <healey.nut@gmail.com =
I don't know if this has ever been answered before, but where does the =
little bypass port begin? =20
=20
What parts of the head does that bypass come in contact with?=20
When do you want to cover the port with a sleeve (when coolant is hot or =
cold?)
=20
I ask because the old bellows style thermostat will cover the bypass =
port when the thermostat opens
then I have another wax thermostat and the sleeve actually cover the =
bypass when it is cold, and doesn't cover it when the thermostat =
opens.... so it works exact opposite to the old bellows style =
thermostat.
=20
confused....
Cheers,
=20
Alan
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/eps2660@gmail.com
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healey.nut@gmail.com
=20
_______________________________________________
=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/bspidell@comcast.net
=20
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys =
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healey.nut@gmail.com
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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>FYI, Norm =
Nock did a nice write up on the thermostat issue in his =E2=80=9CTech =
Talk=E2=80=9D publication complete with diagrams.=C2=A0 He notes that a =
=E2=80=9Cnew=E2=80=9D (back in 2009) thermostat was available with the =
sleeve and it moved down as the operating temp was reached.=C2=A0 I =
bought one from him at British Car Specialists and have had no issues at =
all.=C2=A0 No idea if BCS still carry them.=C2=A0 It is worth buying a =
copy of Tech Tips too =E2=80=93 lots of interesting information =
there!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Cheers, =
Mirek<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Healeys =
<healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Alan Seigrist =
via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> March 29, 2022 10:00 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob =
Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net><br><b>Cc:</b> Healey list =
<healeys@autox.team.net><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] Coolant =
bypass port in the head - 6-cyl<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi Bob =
-<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>the Robertshaw thermostats are nicely made, but they =
open the wrong way around... let me do some measurements as I am dealing =
with the cooling on my BJ8 now. I have a robert shaw... as well as =
another sleeved thermostat as well as the =
bellows.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 9:54 AM Bob Spidell <<a =
href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net";>bspidell@comcast.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Years ago, someone--might have been BCS, =
but I'm not sure--was selling a Robertshaw thermostat with a brass =
sleeve soldered to it (Robertshaw thermostats have a center portion that =
moves up and down). The one I bought was 160deg; I desoldered the sleeve =
and soldered it to a 180deg Robertshaw. I bought one of the original, =
bellows-type from Kees--whatever happened to him?--but never installed =
it; heard they were the 'fail closed' type, which could turn a minor =
failure into a catastrophe (still have it around somewhere).<br><br><a =
href=3D"https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-330-160-degr=
ee-thermostat" =
target=3D"_blank">https://flowkoolerwaterpumps.com/products/robertshaw-33=
0-160-degree-thermostat</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>On 3/29/2022 6:35 PM, Alan Seigrist via Healeys =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Harold - <o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Thank you, now I understand how the whole thing is =
supposed to work. The sleeve works to cut off the bypass so that =
hot water is not recycled into the system after it warms up. FWIW, =
this only applies to the 6 cyl, the 4 cyl doesn't have any sort of =
bypass.<br><br>Yes, I think it would be great if you could share with us =
which thermostat to purchase and how to modify =
it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Alan<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Wed, Mar 30, 2022 at 1:28 AM Harold Manifold via Healeys <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The coolant bypass plays an important but problematic role =
in the Healey=E2=80=99s cooling system. When the thermostat is closed =
coolant returns to the water pump via the bypass. See the red circle on =
the attached picture. The bypass is important for three reasons: its =
allows the coolant in the block to continue to circulate and come to a =
uniform temperature before the thermostat opens, it prevents hot spots =
that could develop from stagnant coolant and it prevents the water pump =
from dead heading.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The problematic part is in the original design the bypass =
was closed by a sleeve on the bellows type thermostat when the =
thermostat opened. The original Bellows type thermostat used a volatile =
liquid and were not reliable and were not suitable for the 7 psi cooling =
system pressure. Wax type thermostats are much more reliable but they do =
not have a sleeve to close off the bypass. There may be some expensive =
wax type replicas of the original bellows type.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>After looking at many options the best option for a =
reasonably priced wax type thermostat with a sleeve to close off the bay =
pass is the modified Land Rover Series ll thermostat. If anyone would =
like to know about modifying the Landver thermostat let me know. It can =
be easily done.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Harold<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US>From: </span></b><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Michael Salter =
via Healeys</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, March 29, 2022 9:17 =
AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">Healey list</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Healeys] =
Coolant bypass port in the head - 6-cyl<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>The coolant travels from the bottom of the radiator to the =
water pump into the block then from the block into the head then through =
the thermostat to the top of the radiator.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Tue., Mar. 29, 2022, 11:57 a.m. Elton S, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:eps2660@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">eps2660@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>As a related question, what is the direction of flow =
through the radiator - up from the bottom or down from the =
top?<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Elton <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>BJ7<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:44 AM Michael Salter <<a =
href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>As Gary points out, and far as I have been able to figure =
out, the bypass passage is open when the engine is cold, the idea being =
that by "short circuiting" the radiator the coolant in the =
heater and bypass passage will warm up more quickly and the heater will =
produce heat more quickly. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We had a slew of the "shrouded " type thermostats =
that I bought when Smiths Canada closed down. The part number was =
43570/28 and we used to sell them to customers who reported overheating =
problems. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I stopped promoting them as a potential solution to =
overheating issues after being taken to task by a customer who did an =
extensive study of the issue and proved, at least to my =
satisfaction, that they improved cooling not one =
iota.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>M<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>On Tue., Mar. 29, 2022, 10:47 a.m. Alan Seigrist, <<a =
href=3D"mailto:healey.nut@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">healey.nut@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I don't know if this has ever been answered before, but =
where does the little bypass port begin? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>What parts of the head does that bypass come in contact =
with? <br><br>When do you want to cover the port with a sleeve =
(when coolant is hot or cold?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>I ask because the old bellows style thermostat will cover =
the bypass port when the thermostat opens<br><br>then I have another wax =
thermostat and the sleeve actually cover the bypass when it is cold, and =
doesn't cover it when the thermostat opens.... so it works exact =
opposite to the old bellows style =
thermostat.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>confused....<br><br>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<br>Support =
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