[TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net
Mon Mar 15 15:45:40 MDT 2021
..my previous synopsis was the early/mid 2000s. Might be better now,
never know
ptegler
On 3/15/2021 4:38 PM, John Macartney wrote:
> Thank you for that vote of confidence. I was one of the people who
> used to research owner provided data to issue those certificates and
> although I never signed the buyer copy, the three of us who did that
> work, never authorised any certificate if there was even the slightest
> doubt about authenticity of owner provided data, or the data could not
> be triangulated. However, I left BMIHT some twenty years ago so have
> no idea (or interest now) in what may have happened in later years. I
> still incline to the view that the early TR5 being offered for sale is
> either a “ringer” or the seller is making a claim that cannot be
> substantiated.
>
> Jonmac
>
> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest
> intentions.
>
> On 15 Mar 2021, at 17:44, ptegler at verizon.net
> <mailto:ptegler at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I have little to no faith in Heritgage Certs.... had an aquiantance
>> recieve a cert with invalid info.
>> As a test he submitted a flat out bogus number an they gave him a
>> cert for it!
>> rubbish.
>> Now perhaps they had/have vaild records at one time, or for a
>> particular series of vehicles...but twice now on two different
>> lineages of cars, the info printed on the cert was just crap thrown
>> on paper for the $$
>>
>> ptegler
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Macartney <John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk
>> <mailto:John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk>>
>> To: Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com <mailto:grglmn at gmail.com>>
>> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>>
>> Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm
>> Subject: Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?
>>
>> I’ve just had a look at the Heritage Certificate for the above car.
>> From the info on the certificate, it’s clear it was built for a named
>> customer in Denmark and supplied under Standard Triumphs Personal
>> Export Scheme which I worked within for several years. Cars built for
>> display at any international motor show were identified very clearly
>> on the build record and sales invoice as ‘motor show car’ and this
>> would have been picked up by BMIHT staff when interrogating the
>> microfilmed records. It’s also worth mentioning the company would
>> never have used a customer car for exhibition display at any show
>> such as those which were as prestigious as London, Paris, Frankfurt,
>> Geneva or New York. A show car? Not in my book, though the person
>> whose name appears on the BMIHT document might have been in England
>> FOR the show but his car on the main or Liverpool stands AT the show?
>> No way - unless someone can come up with documentation to prove me
>> wrong. I wouldn’t touch it with that claimed or alleged history but
>> no doubt someone with more money than sense will swallow the bait and
>> pay way over the odds for a TR5 that could well be a clone. Too often
>> in life, things are not always what they seem and in my view this car
>> fits that category.
>>
>> Jonmac
>>
>>
>>
>> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest
>> intentions.
>>
>> On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:06, John Macartney <John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk
>> <mailto:John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> What many people fail to realise is that motor show cars are very
>> different in many ways to the normal production version. For a start,
>> the paint finish received detailed attention and were often resprayed
>> several times to give the paint a ‘deeper’ appearance. Engine blocks
>> were a shiny black, as were hoses. Body and door shut lines underwent
>> considerable work and door shuts themselves were silky smooth in
>> operation and quiet to operate. This was always difficult to achieve
>> on the Herald, GT6 and Spitfire as closing most doors on those models
>> mostly sounded like putting the lid on an empty trash can. Every
>> night after show closure, the carpets, seats and door cards in all
>> cars were exchanged for new ones and any faults or problems reported
>> to the Stand Manager during the day were rectified. Knobs, switches,
>> lenses that had been stolen or damaged through clumsy removal were
>> also replaced. Leaking or non functional hydraulics were replaced as
>> well and there’s a moral here. NEVER buy a car that has done a stint
>> as a display vehicle at a ten day motor show. It will have gone
>> through hell in that time and Engineering always studied reports of
>> how the cars had held up during the show. Theft, attempted or actual
>> was by no means unknown and one day a man wearing a pair of white
>> overalls was actually caught trying to remove a Herald
>> differential!!! It happened on a Saturday when you could hardly move
>> on the stand because of the crowds. Car ‘ride heights’ were often
>> raised a little to allow for the daily punishment of people of
>> various weights collapsing into cars on a crowded stand. This did
>> little to give seats a gentle life! Mostly, this was achieved by
>> temporarily fitting all cars with heavy duty tropical suspension for
>> the show duration. Doing this meant there was nothing like the amount
>> of “give” found in a car that was conventionally sprung.
>>
>> Was the motor show experience enjoyable? If you like standing on your
>> feet from 09.00 to 22.00 without somewhere to sit down, for ten days
>> solid in an unhealthy atmosphere that gave everyone flu and talking
>> to people who mostly bored you witless and were often less than
>> polite, eating the same outside catered lunch and no chance of a
>> quick beer, I suppose it might have been. The truth was, it wasn’t.
>> We all had to wear dark, tailored three piece suits (bought at our
>> cost), starched cotton shirts with turned back cuffs and a detachable
>> stiff shirt collar and sober tie. Shoes had to be polished like a
>> guardsmans boots, clean finger nails, immaculately clean and parted
>> hair and heaven help you after a day attired like that if the Stand
>> Manager detected even a tiny whiff of halitosis or sweat. Yes, I will
>> admit we, Standard Triumph’s public face, looked good and perhaps we
>> had a little virtuous pride in ourselves - but to this day, I’ve yet
>> to meet any car company employee or salesman who knew as much about
>> his/her product AND the same level of detail of every other make and
>> model of car that competed with us. To this day and well over fifty
>> years later, I’m still amazed how much I can still recall.
>>
>> Jonmac
>>
>> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest
>> intentions.
>>
>> On 8 Mar 2021, at 19:07, Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com
>> <mailto:grglmn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't believe the suspension was raised. Might appear taller as
>>> TR5 tires were skinnier 165, vs. 250 on wider 185/70, or just new
>>> springs riding a little high.
>>>
>>> Greg Lemon
>>> TR250
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:29 PM John Linney <john at linneyweb.com
>>> <mailto:john at linneyweb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Lovely car. Did they raise the ride height from the TR4 / 4A? It
>>> looks a little high.
>>>
>>>> On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com
>>>> <mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Friends in NL have reported that a superbly-restored TR5, the
>>>> original LHD car from the 1967 Earls Court Motor Show premiere,
>>>> has been sold to the USA and is now in the midwest.
>>>>
>>>> Anybody know the car? It's said to be a pretty special TR, and
>>>> I'd probably agree. My first car in life was a TR250,
>>>> unrestorable given my budget, skills, and marque support at the
>>>> time. But today -- I wish I still had it!
>>>>
>>>> Here’s the sales ad:
>>>> https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=triumph-tr5
>>>> <https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=triumph-tr5>
>>>>
>>>> Note the comments about the car's original Swiss-specifications
>>>> and the stuff around engines. Jonmac, this makes us smile to
>>>> think about your efforts in this area back in the day.
>>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> **
>>>>
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--
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net www.teglerizer.com
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