[TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?

Paul Tegler ptegler at verizon.net
Mon Mar 15 15:45:40 MDT 2021


..my previous synopsis was the early/mid 2000s. Might be better now, 
never know

ptegler

On 3/15/2021 4:38 PM, John Macartney wrote:
> Thank you for that vote of confidence. I was one of the people who 
> used to research owner provided data to issue those certificates and 
> although I never signed the buyer copy, the three of us who did that 
> work, never authorised any certificate if there was even the slightest 
> doubt about authenticity of owner provided data, or the data could not 
> be triangulated. However, I left BMIHT some twenty years ago so have 
> no idea (or interest now) in what may have happened in later years. I 
> still incline to the view that the early TR5 being offered for sale is 
> either a “ringer” or the seller is making a claim that cannot be 
> substantiated.
>
> Jonmac
>
> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest 
> intentions.
>
> On 15 Mar 2021, at 17:44, ptegler at verizon.net 
> <mailto:ptegler at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> I have little to no faith in Heritgage Certs.... had an aquiantance 
>> recieve a cert with invalid info.
>> As a test he submitted a flat out bogus number an they gave him a 
>> cert for it!
>> rubbish.
>> Now perhaps they had/have vaild records at one time, or for a 
>> particular series of vehicles...but twice now on two different 
>> lineages of cars, the info printed on the cert was just crap thrown 
>> on paper for the $$
>>
>> ptegler
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Macartney <John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk 
>> <mailto:John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk>>
>> To: Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com <mailto:grglmn at gmail.com>>
>> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>>
>> Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm
>> Subject: Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?
>>
>> I’ve just had a look at the Heritage Certificate for the above car. 
>> From the info on the certificate, it’s clear it was built for a named 
>> customer in Denmark and supplied under Standard Triumphs Personal 
>> Export Scheme which I worked within for several years. Cars built for 
>> display at any international motor show were identified very clearly 
>> on the build record and sales invoice as ‘motor show car’ and this 
>> would have been picked up by BMIHT staff when interrogating the 
>> microfilmed records. It’s also worth mentioning the company would 
>> never have used a customer car for exhibition display at any show 
>> such as those which were as prestigious as London, Paris, Frankfurt, 
>> Geneva or New York. A show car? Not in my book, though the person 
>> whose name appears on the BMIHT document might have been in England 
>> FOR the show but his car on the main or Liverpool stands AT the show? 
>> No way - unless someone can come up with documentation to prove me 
>> wrong. I wouldn’t touch it with that claimed or alleged history but 
>> no doubt someone with more money than sense will swallow the bait and 
>> pay way over the odds for a TR5 that could well be a clone. Too often 
>> in life, things are not always what they seem and in my view this car 
>> fits that category.
>>
>> Jonmac
>>
>>
>>
>> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest 
>> intentions.
>>
>> On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:06, John Macartney <John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk 
>> <mailto:John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> What many people fail to realise is that motor show cars are very 
>> different in many ways to the normal production version. For a start, 
>> the paint finish received detailed attention and were often resprayed 
>> several times to give the paint a ‘deeper’ appearance. Engine blocks 
>> were a shiny black, as were hoses. Body and door shut lines underwent 
>> considerable work and door shuts themselves were silky smooth in 
>> operation and quiet to operate. This was always difficult to achieve 
>> on the Herald, GT6 and Spitfire as closing most doors on those models 
>> mostly sounded like putting the lid on an empty trash can. Every 
>> night after show closure, the carpets, seats and door cards in all 
>> cars were exchanged for new ones and any faults or problems reported 
>> to the Stand Manager during the day were rectified. Knobs, switches, 
>> lenses that had been stolen or damaged through clumsy removal were 
>> also replaced. Leaking or non functional hydraulics were replaced as 
>> well and there’s a moral here. NEVER buy a car that has done a stint 
>> as a display vehicle at a ten day motor show. It will have gone 
>> through hell in that time and Engineering always studied reports of 
>> how the cars had held up during the show. Theft, attempted or actual 
>> was by no means unknown and one day a man wearing a pair of white 
>> overalls was actually caught trying to remove a Herald 
>> differential!!! It happened on a Saturday when you could hardly move 
>> on the stand because of the crowds. Car ‘ride heights’ were often 
>> raised a little to allow for the daily punishment of people of 
>> various weights collapsing into cars on a crowded stand. This did 
>> little to give seats a gentle life! Mostly, this was achieved by 
>> temporarily fitting all cars with heavy duty tropical suspension for 
>> the show duration. Doing this meant there was nothing like the amount 
>> of “give” found in a car that was conventionally sprung.
>>
>> Was the motor show experience enjoyable? If you like standing on your 
>> feet from 09.00 to 22.00 without somewhere to sit down, for ten days 
>> solid in an unhealthy atmosphere that gave everyone flu and talking 
>> to people who mostly bored you witless and were often less than 
>> polite, eating the same outside catered lunch and no chance of a 
>> quick beer, I suppose it might have been. The truth was, it wasn’t. 
>> We all had to wear dark, tailored three piece suits (bought at our 
>> cost), starched cotton shirts with turned back cuffs and a detachable 
>> stiff shirt collar and sober tie. Shoes had to be polished like a 
>> guardsmans boots, clean finger nails, immaculately clean and parted 
>> hair and heaven help you after a day attired like that if the Stand 
>> Manager detected even a tiny whiff of halitosis or sweat. Yes, I will 
>> admit we, Standard Triumph’s public face, looked good and perhaps we 
>> had a little virtuous pride in ourselves - but to this day, I’ve yet 
>> to meet any car company employee or salesman who knew as much about 
>> his/her product AND the same level of detail of every other make and 
>> model of car that competed with us. To this day and well over fifty 
>> years later, I’m still amazed how much I can still recall.
>>
>> Jonmac
>>
>> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest 
>> intentions.
>>
>> On 8 Mar 2021, at 19:07, Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:grglmn at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't believe the suspension was raised.  Might appear taller as 
>>> TR5 tires were skinnier 165, vs. 250 on wider 185/70, or just new 
>>> springs riding a little high.
>>>
>>> Greg Lemon
>>> TR250
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:29 PM John Linney <john at linneyweb.com 
>>> <mailto:john at linneyweb.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Lovely car. Did they raise the ride height from the TR4 / 4A? It
>>>     looks a little high.
>>>
>>>>     On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Friends in NL have reported that a superbly-restored TR5, the
>>>>     original LHD car from the 1967 Earls Court Motor Show premiere,
>>>>     has been sold to the USA and is now in the midwest.
>>>>
>>>>     Anybody know the car?  It's said to be a pretty special TR, and
>>>>     I'd probably agree.  My first car in life was a TR250,
>>>>     unrestorable given my budget, skills, and marque support at the
>>>>     time. But today -- I wish I still had it!
>>>>
>>>>     Here’s the sales ad:
>>>>     https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=triumph-tr5
>>>>     <https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=triumph-tr5>
>>>>
>>>>     Note the comments about the car's original Swiss-specifications
>>>>     and the stuff around engines.  Jonmac, this makes us smile to
>>>>     think about your efforts in this area back in the day.
>>>>     ** triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> **
>>>>
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-- 
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com

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