[TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?

Mon Mar 15 14:38:51 MDT 2021

Thank you for that vote of confidence. I was one of the people who used to research owner provided data to issue those certificates and although I never signed the buyer copy, the three of us who did that work, never authorised any certificate if there was even the slightest doubt about authenticity of owner provided data, or the data could not be triangulated. However, I left BMIHT some twenty years ago so have no idea (or interest now) in what may have happened in later years. I still incline to the view that the early TR5 being offered for sale is either a “ringer” or the seller is making a claim that cannot be substantiated.

Jonmac

Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intentions.

> On 15 Mar 2021, at 17:44, ptegler at verizon.net wrote:
> 
> I have little to no faith in Heritgage Certs.... had an aquiantance recieve a cert with invalid info.
> As a test he submitted a flat out bogus number an they gave him a cert for it!
> rubbish.
> Now perhaps they had/have vaild records at one time, or for a particular series of vehicles...but twice now on two different lineages of cars, the info printed on the cert was just crap thrown on paper for the $$
> 
> ptegler
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Macartney <John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk>
> To: Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com>
> Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Mon, Mar 15, 2021 1:33 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] Earls Court TR5 (CP20LO) now in USA?
> 
> I’ve just had a look at the Heritage Certificate for the above car. From the info on the certificate, it’s clear it was built for a named customer in Denmark and supplied under Standard Triumphs Personal Export Scheme which I worked within for several years. Cars built for display at any international motor show were identified very clearly on the build record and sales invoice as ‘motor show car’ and this would have been picked up by BMIHT staff when interrogating the microfilmed records. It’s also worth mentioning the company would never have used a customer car for exhibition display at any show such as those which were as prestigious as London, Paris, Frankfurt, Geneva or New York. A show car? Not in my book, though the person whose name appears on the BMIHT document might have been in England FOR the show but his car on the main or Liverpool stands AT the show? No way - unless someone can come up with documentation to prove me wrong. I wouldn’t touch it with that claimed or alleged history but no doubt someone with more money than sense will swallow the bait and pay way over the odds for a TR5 that could well be a clone. Too often in life, things are not always what they seem and in my view this car fits that category.
> 
> Jonmac 
> 
> 
> 
> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intentions.
> 
>> On 8 Mar 2021, at 22:06, John Macartney <John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk> wrote:
>> 
> 
> What many people fail to realise is that motor show cars are very different in many ways to the normal production version. For a start, the paint finish received detailed attention and were often resprayed several times to give the paint a ‘deeper’ appearance. Engine blocks were a shiny black, as were hoses. Body and door shut lines underwent considerable work and door shuts themselves were silky smooth in operation and quiet to operate. This was always difficult to achieve on the Herald, GT6 and Spitfire as closing most doors on those models mostly sounded like putting the lid on an empty trash can. Every night after show closure, the carpets, seats and door cards in all cars were exchanged for new ones and any faults or problems reported to the Stand Manager during the day were rectified. Knobs, switches, lenses that had been stolen or damaged through clumsy removal were also replaced. Leaking or non functional hydraulics were replaced as well and there’s a moral here. NEVER buy a car that has done a stint as a display vehicle at a ten day motor show. It will have gone through hell in that time and Engineering always studied reports of how the cars had held up during the show. Theft, attempted or actual was by no means unknown and one day a man wearing a pair of white overalls was actually caught trying to remove a Herald differential!!! It happened on a Saturday when you could hardly move on the stand because of the crowds. Car ‘ride heights’ were often raised a little to allow for the daily punishment of people of various weights collapsing into cars on a crowded stand. This did little to give seats a gentle life! Mostly, this was achieved by temporarily fitting all cars with heavy duty tropical suspension for the show duration. Doing this meant there was nothing like the amount of “give” found in a car that was conventionally sprung.
> 
> Was the motor show experience enjoyable? If you like standing on your feet from 09.00 to 22.00 without somewhere to sit down, for ten days solid in an unhealthy atmosphere that gave everyone flu and talking to people who mostly bored you witless and were often less than polite, eating the same outside catered lunch and no chance of a quick beer, I suppose it might have been. The truth was, it wasn’t. We all had to wear dark, tailored three piece suits (bought at our cost), starched cotton shirts with turned back cuffs and a detachable stiff shirt collar and sober tie. Shoes had to be polished like a guardsmans boots, clean finger nails, immaculately clean and parted hair and heaven help you after a day attired like that if the Stand Manager detected even a tiny whiff of halitosis or sweat. Yes, I will admit we, Standard Triumph’s public face, looked good and perhaps we had a little virtuous pride in ourselves - but to this day, I’ve yet to meet any car company employee or salesman who knew as much about his/her product AND the same level of detail of every other make and model of car that competed with us. To this day and well over fifty years later, I’m still amazed how much I can still recall.
> 
> Jonmac
> 
> Vote for Guy Fawkes! The only man who entered Parliament with honest intentions.
> 
>> On 8 Mar 2021, at 19:07, Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't believe the suspension was raised.  Might appear taller as TR5 tires were skinnier 165, vs. 250 on wider 185/70, or just new springs riding a little high.
>> 
>> Greg Lemon
>> TR250
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:29 PM John Linney <john at linneyweb.com> wrote:
>> Lovely car. Did they raise the ride height from the TR4 / 4A? It looks a little high.
>> 
>>> On Mar 8, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Friends in NL have reported that a superbly-restored TR5, the original LHD car from the 1967 Earls Court Motor Show premiere, has been sold to the USA and is now in the midwest.
>>> 
>>> Anybody know the car?  It's said to be a pretty special TR, and I'd probably agree.  My first car in life was a TR250, unrestorable given my budget, skills, and marque support at the time.  But today -- I wish I still had it!
>>> 
>>> Here’s the sales ad:
>>> https://www.jbclassiccars.com/?portfolio=triumph-tr5
>>> 
>>> Note the comments about the car's original Swiss-specifications and the stuff around engines.  Jonmac, this makes us smile to think about your efforts in this area back in the day.
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>> 
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