[Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.
Bill Tobin
william.tobin31 at verizon.net
Sun Aug 11 14:46:38 MDT 2019
Now that's impressive; simple, cheap, and it works. Good job.
Cheers, Bill
On 8/11/2019 1:26 PM, Greg Blake via Fot wrote:
> I had one stuck last year. This is the little pulled I made from 2
> exhaust clamps and some all thread rod. Worked like a champ.
>
> Greg
> image1.jpeg
> image2.jpeg
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> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 11, 2019, at 11:45 AM, barry rosenberg via Fot
> <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>
>> Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I
>> would not expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay
>> gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long
>> bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this dozens of time with
>> no problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs
>> are .0025" too small!
>>
>> Barry
>>
>> On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot
>> <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes exactly right.
>> By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone had come up
>> with a good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.
>> So far I have not.
>> Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that bearing out of the
>> laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to resort
>> to grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.
>> I would appreciate it if someone has a procedure for installing a
>> tapered roller bearing.?I would be interested in giving it a try.
>> Glenn
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com
>> <mailto:fubog1 at aol.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.
>> It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to the shell
>> bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.
>> I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitch to remove
>> anyway.
>> In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear &
>> bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal
>> generated directly above by the graunching going into 1st &
>> reverse, that stuff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the
>> backside of the washer & the case.
>> I share your pain...
>> Glen
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Glenn Franco <brakey6666 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:brakey6666 at gmail.com>>
>> To: fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com <mailto:fubog1 at aol.com>>
>> Cc: John Styduhar <johnstydo at gmail.com
>> <mailto:johnstydo at gmail.com>>; FOT list <fot at autox.team.net
>> <mailto:fot at autox.team.net>>
>> Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing
>> failures.
>>
>> Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D
>> transmissions.
>> Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not
>> the loose needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The
>> last few years I have been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4
>> Transmissions.
>> The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks
>> along the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer
>> that is near the smaller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture
>> into pieces and the remaining will dig into the thrust washer and
>> then the case if not removed soon enough.
>> The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the
>> problem is getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As
>> I stated earlier, to remove the laygear ( after the shaft is
>> removed ) the small thrust washer needs to be removed so the
>> laygear can tilt and worked out of the case.
>> When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer
>> its almost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case
>> on your hands.
>> Glenn with 2 n's
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <fubog1 at aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.
>>
>> Glen with 1 "n".
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>> To: Glenn Franco <brakey6666 at gmail.com>
>> Cc: FOT list <fot at autox.team.net>
>> Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing
>> failures.
>>
>> Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you
>> described is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is
>> it a general problem?? Thanks
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot
>> <fot at autox.team.net> wrote:
>>
>> Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this
>> afternoon. Next one I do I'm going to insist that the
>> owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or maybe 2.
>> I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the
>> layshaft bearing next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried
>> to escape the case through the thrust bearing. I have
>> tried in vane to remove the laygear?with one that ground
>> its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I
>> sometimes get the laygear out but in most cases the trans
>> case with the laygear is sent to scrap.
>> Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease
>> the laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small
>> thust bearing with a magnet so you can tilt the laygear
>> enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to?a "
>> Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the
>> laygear to get it out. Didn't end well however.
>> I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered
>> roller bearing on that end which would make more sense
>> than the original design.
>> Please advise
>> Thanks in advance
>> Glenn
>> TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002
>> being restored
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