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Re: [Healeys] Advice and guidance needed for OD reinstallation

To: Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Advice and guidance needed for OD reinstallation
From: Bob Spidell via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2025 08:32:22 -0700
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
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Hi Michael,

I've particular interest in the jumping-out-of-gear issue as I've 
suffered it, mainly after a previous rebuild. But, the issue went away* 
after a while. I think you are absolutely correct, as any forward-aft 
movement could break the engagement of the coupling (detent springs are 
insufficient by themselves to hold the 3/4 gears in contact). Note the 
DWM 3/4 replacement says the plungers that go in  this gear are 
'unnecessary'--do you know what they're for?--but I re-installed them 
anyway. Since the 'mainshaft' is actually two pieces--first motion and 
main--any slop there would be problematic. Interesting that BMC did away 
with the bellville/shim arrangement and went to a fixed shim in the BJ8; 
a better arrangement, or just cheaper?

One 'theory' I've heard is that the orientation of the shift 
boot--nipple-up or nipple-down--can cause 4th to disengage; I don't 
remember which way can cause it and, I think the 'correct' way is in 
dispute (though period photos show nipple-down). It's been a couple 
decades, but IIRC the issue* 'went away' when I changed the orientation 
of the boot. I've found the nipple-up placement to last a bit longer, as 
new rubber components are often pretty crappy.

bs

On 8/28/2025 8:14 AM, Michael Salter wrote:
> Bob, some years ago I was asked to resolve a "jumping out of 4th gear 
> on overrun" issue in a late BJ8 gearbox and discovered that the shims 
> for both the 1st and 3rd shaft bearings were missing entirely however 
> there was also some wear on the internal teeth on both sides of the 
> 3/4 coupling sleeve.
> I replaced the coupling sleeve and the shims on both bearings which 
> resolved the problem.
> My conclusion was that the missing shims were the primary cause of the 
> problem and that the wear on the sleeve was caused by the axial 
> movement of the shaft(s) ; however that was supposition on my part and 
> I would love to hear more about this subject.
>
> M
>
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2025 at 10:39â?¯AM Bob Spidell via Healeys 
> <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>     When I read this I thought "OMG, I didn't put these in when I did
>     a gearbox/OD rebuild a few years ago, is that what causes the
>     notorious jumping-out-of-fourth problem?!" So I checked my parts
>     catalog--aka the Moss catalog--and didn't see them listed in the
>     OD sections, but I did find them in the 'Internal gearbox, 4
>     speed' section showing the mainshaft assembly as 'plate, spring
>     bearing' and 'plate, bearing,' but only for the pre-BJ8 cars on
>     the front of the gearbox (by the first motion shaft). So, did I
>     miss something, as I don't recall ever seeing them in the OD
>     adapter in 2 rebuilds (the catalog doesn't show them)?
>
>     For the BJ8, the catalog shows 2 available shim sizes, in lieu of
>     the bellville washer and 'plate,' I presume, but I installed DWM's
>     'uprated' shim and had to have the bellhousing machined appropriately.
>
>     
> https://www.bighealey.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product_grouped&product_id=34295
>     
> <https://www.bighealey.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product_grouped&product_id=34295>
>
>     Bob
>
>     On 8/27/2025 1:30 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
>>     Those "rings" are the Bellville washer and shim that go into the
>>     adaptor plate to eliminate end float of the mainshaft bearing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net>
>>     Berkowitz via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>     *Sent:* Wednesday, August 27, 2025 3:50:01 PM
>>     *To:* healeys@autox.team.net <healeys@autox.team.net>
>>     *Subject:* [Healeys] Advice and guidance needed for OD
>>     reinstallation
>>     Hi. All
>>     I finally figured out how to get the OD out of my BJ7. Now for
>>     getting the new one installed. I found two rings sitting on the
>>     output shaft which I believe are fitted to the adapter plate.
>>     (See pics attached). The problem is going to be how to keep them
>>     in place while maneuvering the new OD into place. I was thinking
>>     of using either white lithium grease or wheel bearing grease.
>>     Any suggestions?
>>     Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.
>>
>>     Len Berkowitz
>
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    Hi Michael,<br>
    <br>
    I've particular interest in the jumping-out-of-gear issue as I've
    suffered it, mainly after a previous rebuild. But, the issue went
    away* after a while. I think you are absolutely correct, as any
    forward-aft movement could break the engagement of the coupling
    (detent springs are insufficient by themselves to hold the 3/4 gears
    in contact). Note the DWM 3/4 replacement says the plungers that go
    in  this gear are 'unnecessary'--do you know what they're for?--but
    I re-installed them anyway. Since the 'mainshaft' is actually two
    pieces--first motion and main--any slop there would be problematic.
    Interesting that BMC did away with the bellville/shim arrangement
    and went to a fixed shim in the BJ8; a better arrangement, or just
    cheaper?<br>
    <br>
    One 'theory' I've heard is that the orientation of the shift
    boot--nipple-up or nipple-down--can cause 4th to disengage; I don't
    remember which way can cause it and, I think the 'correct' way is in
    dispute (though period photos show nipple-down). It's been a couple
    decades, but IIRC the issue* 'went away' when I changed the
    orientation of the boot. I've found the nipple-up placement to last
    a bit longer, as new rubber components are often pretty crappy.<br>
    <br>
    bs <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/28/2025 8:14 AM, Michael Salter
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7L++gQKTwXzHWN-CHTgMqREGfxqDcdisEZ11vTbgXr-Hig@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Bob, some
          years ago I was asked to resolve a "jumping out of 4th gear on
          overrun" issue in a late BJ8 gearbox and discovered that the
          shims for both the 1st and 3rd shaft bearings were missing
          entirely however there was also some wear on the internal
          teeth on both sides of the 3/4 coupling sleeve. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
          replaced the coupling sleeve and the shims on both bearings
          which resolved the problem. </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">My
          conclusion was that the missing shims were the primary cause
          of the problem and that the wear on the sleeve was caused by
          the axial movement of the shaft(s) ; however that was
          supposition on my part and I would love to hear more about
          this subject.</div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_default"
          style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">M</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 28, 2025 at
          10:39â?¯AM Bob Spidell via Healeys &lt;<a
            href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; moz-do-not-send="true"
            class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid 
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div> When I read this I thought "OMG, I didn't put these in
            when I did a gearbox/OD rebuild a few years ago, is that
            what causes the notorious jumping-out-of-fourth problem?!"
            So I checked my parts catalog--aka the Moss catalog--and
            didn't see them listed in the OD sections, but I did find
            them in the 'Internal gearbox, 4 speed' section showing the
            mainshaft assembly as 'plate, spring bearing' and 'plate,
            bearing,' but only for the pre-BJ8 cars on the front of the
            gearbox (by the first motion shaft). So, did I miss
            something, as I don't recall ever seeing them in the OD
            adapter in 2 rebuilds (the catalog doesn't show them)? <br>
            <br>
            For the BJ8, the catalog shows 2 available shim sizes, in
            lieu of the bellville washer and 'plate,' I presume, but I
            installed DWM's 'uprated' shim and had to have the
            bellhousing machined appropriately.<br>
            <br>
            <a
href="https://www.bighealey.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product_grouped&amp;product_id=34295";
              target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.bighealey.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product_grouped&amp;product_id=34295</a><br>
            <br>
            Bob<br>
            <br>
            <div>On 8/27/2025 1:30 PM, Michael Salter wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"
                dir="auto"> Those "rings" are the Bellville washer and
                shim that go into the adaptor plate to eliminate end
                float of the mainshaft bearing.</div>
              <div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"
                dir="auto"> <br>
              </div>
              <div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"
                dir="auto"> <br>
              </div>
              <div
id="m_1263615479398772690ms-outlook-mobile-body-separator-line"
                dir="auto"><br>
              </div>
              <div id="m_1263615479398772690ms-outlook-mobile-signature"
                dir="auto"
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
                <div
style="font-family:Aptos,Aptos_MSFontService,-apple-system,Roboto,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
                  <br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
              <div id="m_1263615479398772690divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
                  face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"
                  color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys <a
                    href="mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";
                    target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;healeys-bounces@autox.team.net&gt;</a>
                  on behalf of Leonard Berkowitz via Healeys <a
                    href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
                    
moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;healeys@autox.team.net&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 27, 2025 3:50:01 PM<br>
                  <b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
                    class="moz-txt-link-freetext">healeys@autox.team.net</a>
                  <a href="mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";
                    target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">&lt;healeys@autox.team.net&gt;</a><br>
                  <b>Subject:</b> [Healeys] Advice and guidance needed
                  for OD reinstallation</font>
                <div> </div>
              </div>
              <div>
                <div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                  Hi. All</div>
                <div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                  I finally figured out how to get the OD out of my BJ7.
                  Now for getting the new one installed. I found two
                  rings sitting on the output shaft which I believe are
                  fitted to the adapter plate. (See pics attached). The
                  problem is going to be how to keep them in place while
                  maneuvering the new OD into place. I was thinking of
                  using either white lithium grease or wheel bearing
                  grease. </div>
                <div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                  Any suggestions? </div>
                <div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                  Thank you in advance for any help you can offer. </div>
                <div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                  <br>
                </div>
                <div
style="font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;background-color:transparent">
                  Len Berkowitz </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>
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