--===============4678465121722976501==
--000000000000c908c8060c93bf86
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'm not an "M" guy really because as someone mentioned there isn't that
much to hanging the "modification " parts on any 100.
If the "M" designation involved significant performance modifications, say
like an "M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I would
consider them be very special.
I understand that Mr Meade has now sold his "M" so would not be surprised
to see the "Registry" fade away.
Just my opinion.
M
On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023, 1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> What makes a 100M?
> Very good question and not easy to answer.
>
> In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, especially as the price category is=
significantly higher than the normal 100,
> is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified 100M=
is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and
> no longer an M. But this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be s=
uch a major modification for me, as would a
> conversion to disc brakes at the front or a conversion to a Weber carbure=
ttors, etc. This would be simply no longer a
> Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for t=
he same money. But I have to admit, for me
> the hype surrounding the 100M is far exaggerated for what the car is. It'=
s a special model with a little more
> horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an Alpina BMW=
or a AMG Mercedes.
>
> Josef Eckert
> Germany
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
>
> Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT
>
> Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100
>
> Von: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
>
> An: "HealeyRick" <healeyrik@gmail.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Note the Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be
> what Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M' with
> aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.).
>
> I don't think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be
> somewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and
> parts on a BN1 (a BN2, *maybe*). The main problem I see is an earnest
> owner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure, but
> an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conveniently
> forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be they cars or rock
> bands).
>
>
> On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:
>
> This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it with that caveat.
> Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so bad it needed a new
> frame. How hard would it be to transfer the 100M body parts over to a
> solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chassis plate? The 100M
> Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body parts and cockpit
> surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engines have been
> registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was on the registry. S=
o
> is the BaT car still an M? Some pretty valuable race cars have been
> crashed and fitted with new chassis and still bring big money at auction.
>
> To me, what makes an M an M is the motor. If an M no longer has its
> original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M.
> Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a Sunbeam
> Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sure, it's
> got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not much of a Tiger
> anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original carbs and
> distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an original M
> motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers and pu=
t
> a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a 100M c=
am
> in the lump!
>
> Happy Healeydays,
> Rick Neville
>
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AFPM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net=
> wrote:
>
>> Excellent report, thank you.
>>
>> I was one of the commenters on BaT--I joined BaT to comment--but, since =
I
>> have a BN2/100M I'm not familiar with BN1 differences and could only poi=
nt
>> out obvious differences with my car (which was completely original as fa=
r
>> as I can tell, except for extensive body work). One thing that was somew=
hat
>> disturbing to me is that the Registry certified this car, while noting s=
ome
>> major anomalies (the carbs, for instance, looked to be new and didn't ha=
ve
>> the hand scribing like my car).
>>
>> The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this car? Yes,
>> it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its value *should=
*
>> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN2. And, what did t=
he
>> previous owner know, or should have known about this car? How do you
>> present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It would need the proverbia=
l
>> asterisk alongside the page title.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:
>>
>> If you were following it recently, you might find my observations
>> interesting. So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him determi=
ne
>> if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.
>>
>> It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1
>> front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, =
as
>> the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no
>> evidence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount
>> shows non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate t=
he
>> BN2 mount.
>>
>> What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays
>> mounted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions =
to
>> just make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two
>> relays). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area wi=
th
>> my fingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill tho=
se
>> 4 holes. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those ho=
les
>> seem as they never existed. Along with that, where a BN2 would have the
>> single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed int=
o
>> welded captive nuts on the firewall, you can see plain sheet screws wer=
e
>> used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.
>>
>> I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping.
>> Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end
>> result. I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared
>> identical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear
>> original. Now that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engi=
ne,
>> because there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Any=
one
>> who drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in
>> power, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.
>>
>> The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off
>> another lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows som=
e
>> previous age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out a=
ny
>> evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I wil=
l
>> say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and
>> prestine. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for
>> someone else to decide.
>>
>> Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original, and I simply don't
>> have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks old, it's
>> original. It does indeed look to have some age, so?
>>
>> I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effort to
>> try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassis.
>> Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes
>> where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the perso=
n
>> didn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thought t=
hey
>> were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?
>>
>> With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correctly=
.
>> The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and gap=
s
>> look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all
>> around. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under h=
is
>> belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the
>> restoration, it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets w=
ere
>> not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning some
>> trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.
>>
>> The Millers
>>
>> "Always drive them, but remember each drive in an antique car is a test
>> drive."
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>>
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>>
>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healeyrik@gmail.com
>>
>> =EF=BB=BF
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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--000000000000c908c8060c93bf86
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">I'm not an "M" guy really because as someon=
e mentioned there isn't that much to hanging the "modification &qu=
ot; parts on any 100.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">If the "M" designati=
on involved significant performance modifications,=C2=A0 say like an "=
M" series BMW, which could not be easily copied, then I would consider=
them be very special.<div dir=3D"auto">I understand that Mr Meade has now =
sold his "M" so would not be surprised to see the "Registry&=
quot; fade away.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Just my opinion.=C2=A0</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div></div><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri., Dec. 15, 2023,=
1:59 p.m. josef-eckert--- via Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox=
.team.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div><pre id=3D"m_-8948067483587624533tw-target-text" dir=3D"=
ltr" style=3D"text-align:left"><span lang=3D"en" style=3D"font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">What makes a 100M? <br>Very good ques=
tion and not easy to answer.<br><br>In my opinion, an Austin-Healey 100M, e=
specially as the price category is significantly higher than the normal 100=
, <br>is a car that any modification reduces its value. A heavily modified =
100M is nothing special. It's a modified 100 and <br>no longer an M. Bu=
t this is my personal opinion. A new chassis would be such a major modifica=
tion for me, as would a <br>conversion to disc brakes at the front or a con=
version to a Weber carburettors, etc. This would be simply no longer a <br>=
Genuine 100M. I would then rather buy an original Austin-Healey 100 for the=
same money. But I have to admit, for me <br>the hype surrounding the 100M =
is far exaggerated for what the car is. It's a special model with a lit=
tle more <br>horsepower, but not anything particularly special. Its like an=
Alpina BMW or a AMG Mercedes.<br><br>Josef Eckert<br>Germany<br></span></p=
re>
<p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px"><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-ser=
if;font-size:10pt;color:#000000;text-decoration:none">=C2=A0</span></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">-----Original-Nachricht-----</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">Betreff: Re: [Healeys] Recent 100M on BAT</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">Datum: 2023-12-15T18:07:16+0100</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">Von: "Bob Spidell" <<a href=3D"mailto:=
bspidell@comcast.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast=
.net</a>></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">An: "HealeyRick" <<a href=3D"mailto:he=
aleyrik@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeyrik@gmail.com=
</a>></p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"margin:0px">=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"color:#000000;font:12px Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Note the =
Registry will also certify 'Le Mans Conversions,' which may be what=
Kent's nasty is/was. Some have noted you can build a 'better M'=
; with aftermarket parts (Isky cam, alloy head, SBC, etc.). <br><br>I don&#=
39;t think either Kilmartin or Jules makes a 100 chassis, but I'd be so=
mewhat more sympathetic to that, but not so much hanging an M body and part=
s on a BN1 (a BN2, <em>maybe</em>). The main problem I see is an earnest ow=
ner may sell a conversion (aka 'counterfeit') with full disclosure,=
but an owner or two down the road the 'Tribute' tag has been conve=
niently forgotten (I'm not all in on 'tribute' anything, be the=
y cars or rock bands).<br><br><br>
<div>On 12/15/2023 7:17 AM, HealeyRick wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir=3D"ltr">This is all hypothesis based on speculation so take it wit=
h that caveat.=C2=A0 Let's say one had a rusty factory 100M that was so=
bad it needed a new frame.=C2=A0 How hard would it be to transfer the 100M=
body parts over to a solid BN1 chassis along with the oh-so-valuable chass=
is plate? The 100M Registry seems to focus mostly on the original body part=
s and cockpit surrounds to certify a car. Even cars with non-original engin=
es have been registered. I'm pretty certain Kent Lacy's Nasty M was=
on the registry. So is the BaT car still an M?=C2=A0 Some pretty valuable =
race cars have been crashed and fitted with=C2=A0new chassis and still brin=
g big money at auction.=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>To me, what makes an M an M is the motor.=C2=A0 If an M no longer has =
its original motor, or equal replacement, it has lost its character as an M=
. Otherwise, it's a BN2 with a louvered hood. It's almost like if a=
Sunbeam Tiger blew its motor and it was replaced with an Alpine motor. Sur=
e, it's got the right serial number on the unibody, but it's not mu=
ch of a Tiger anymore. The BaT car with what appears to be non-original car=
bs and distributor caused me concern. Who would remove those from an origin=
al M motor? C'mon 100M sellers, pop the valve cover, remove the rockers=
and put a dial indicator on the pushrods so we can see if there is still a=
100M cam in the lump!</div>
<div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Happy Healeydays,</div>
<div>Rick Neville</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 1:05=E2=80=AF=
PM Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid #cccccc;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Excellent report, thank you. <br><br>I was one of the commenters on Ba=
T--I joined BaT to comment--but, since I have a BN2/100M I'm not famili=
ar with BN1 differences and could only point out obvious differences with m=
y car (which was completely original as far as I can tell, except for exten=
sive body work). One thing that was somewhat disturbing to me is that the R=
egistry certified this car, while noting some major anomalies (the carbs, f=
or instance, looked to be new and didn't have the hand scribing like my=
car). <br><br>The other thing that interested me is, how do you value this=
car? Yes, it's a very nice car, probably a good driver but, IMO, its v=
alue <em>should</em> be less than a comparably restored, original BN1 or BN=
2. And, what did the previous owner know, or should have known about this c=
ar? How do you present it for sale; as a BN1 with 'M bits?' It woul=
d need the proverbial asterisk alongside the page title.<br><br>Bob<br><br>=
<br><br>
<div>On 12/14/2023 8:15 AM, S and T Miller wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit;color:inherit;backgroun=
d-color:transparent">
<div>If you were following it recently,=C2=A0 you might find my observation=
s interesting.=C2=A0 So I went down to Michael's motor cars to help him=
determine if the 100m indeed has a BN1 chassis. Here is what I found.</div=
>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>It has the BN1 inner fenders with the rolled pressings. It has the BN1=
front brake hose frame mount the is less pronounced welded BN1 bracket, as=
the later cars have a bolted on bracket. The front shock towers have no ev=
idence of being replaced and show the factory welds. The gearbox mount show=
s non-original/factory welds as if it were replaced to accommodate the BN2 =
mount.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>What I found most interesting is that where a BN1 has two OD relays mo=
unted under the dash, it took shining a light it different directions to ju=
st make out the slight evidence of filled holes (4 of then for the two rela=
ys). And I was able to reach inside the vent just below that area with my f=
ingers and feel the welds and welding wire that was used to fill those 4 ho=
les. I can tell you someone took great care to try and make those holes see=
m as they never existed.=C2=A0 Along with that, where a BN2 would have the =
single OD relay attached to the firewall with machine screws screwed into w=
elded captive nuts on the firewall,=C2=A0 you can see plain sheet screws we=
re used to mount it in what would be a BN2 relay position.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I also feel the engine tag is a repo because of the lighter stamping. =
Originals tend to have the numbers/ letters stamped with a deeper end resul=
t.=C2=A0 I took my repo engine tag along to compare, and they appeared iden=
tical in the stampings. The body/ bath tag and VIN plate appear original. N=
ow that doesn't mean that the engine isn't the correct M engine, be=
cause there could be many reasons why the engine tag was replaced. Anyone w=
ho drove a stock 100 compared to a 100M can attest to the difference in pow=
er, and Mike stated that it indeed has that M power.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The boot lid shows no evidence of the stay bracket being swapped off a=
nother lid, and if you look closely you can see that the boot shows some pr=
evious age/life. I'd believe it to be original. I could not make out an=
y evidence of the bonnet number being sliced in from a M bonnet, but I will=
say that the underside of the bonnet seemed suspiciously clean and prestin=
e. I couldn't detect any age like the boot, but that would be for someo=
ne else to decide.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>Mike had asked me if the cold air box was original,=C2=A0 and I simply=
don't have that experience to know. I have anyways heard if it looks o=
ld, it's original.=C2=A0 It does indeed look to have some age, so?</div=
>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>I feel at some point in this car's life someone went to some effor=
t to try and conceal that these 100M parts were reinstalled on a BN1 chassi=
s. Another interesting note is that there was an attempt to fill the holes =
where a BN1 chassis plate is fitted on the frame rail. Perhaps the person d=
idn't realize that the holes continued over to the BN2's, and thoug=
ht they were erasing evidence of a BN1 chassis?=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>With all that said, Mike is simply trying to represent the car correct=
ly. The car is a very nice car! Paint is very nice, car is straight, and ga=
ps look good. Interior is very nice, and looks to be a very good car all ar=
ound. I didn't drive the car, but Mike has years of experience under hi=
s belt, so I'd trust his opinions on that. With the quality of the rest=
oration,=C2=A0 it is surprising that the front frame to shroud brackets wer=
e not welded to the frame. Chrome looks good, and I'd think winning som=
e trophies at a popular vote car would not be an issue.=C2=A0</div>
</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div>
<div>The Millers<br>=C2=A0<br>"Always drive them, but remember each dr=
ive in an antique car is a test drive."</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>Support Team.Net <a href=
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</blockquote></div>
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