--===============5055493392664590298==
--000000000000858d6405e56cfc5c
Based upon my observations when the aluminium overdrive accumulator
housings are scored you will invariably find that there are chips out of
the non syncro 1st and reverse gears and usually badly damaged laygear
rollers.
Because these gearboxes were not fitted with chip gathering magnet
originally the tiny hardened steel chips eventually find their way into the
overdrive then through the overdrive pump gauze (because the magnets
originally fitted in the overdrive have been lost by " the lube guy") and
lodge in the accumulator.
Those chips very quickly score the cylinder as the accumulator piston moves.
If you are careful to never grind 1st or reverse no chips will be created,
that will mean that they don't go through the laygear bearings or find
their way into the overdrive.
A magnetic plug in the gearbox is great insurance.
M
On Thu., Aug. 4, 2022, 12:13 p.m. Warren Dietz, <flyhihealey@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Bob,
>
> Interesting observation.
>
> Only 30/40 wt non detergent oil was used from new till 2013 at which time
> I switched
>
> to Redline MT90 @ 181,000 miles.
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> *From: *Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
> *Sent: *Thursday, August 4, 2022 9:38 AM
> *To: *Warren Dietz <flyhihealey@gmail.com>; healeys@autox.team.net
> *Subject: *Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston
>
>
>
> Warren,
>
> Your accumulator piston and housing look to have a bit worse scoring than
> mine; I used synthetic fluid for over half the life of mine, I wonder if
> that made a difference?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows
>
>
>
> This was the condition of my piston and housing with close to 200,000
> miles. Tranny was well maintained.
>
> The original metal rings lasted 53 years. So I guess with unknown quality
> of either of todays metal vs rubber
>
> O rings, let the experiments begin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
> *Sent: *Wednesday, August 3, 2022 10:12 PM
> *To: *healeys@autox.team.net
> *Subject: *Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston
>
>
>
> The rings will score the inside of the piston housing, though not badly
> (photo at 205K miles). Looks like there's a side load on the piston,
> probably from the spring.
>
> I donated this accumulator to another owner; never heard how they worked.
> Moss shows the rings available (but who knows?).
>
> On 8/3/2022 12:36 PM, Henry G Leach via Healeys wrote:
>
> I assemble ODs using the original metal rings and have not had any issues
> with pressure or engagement/disengagement.
>
>
>
> When Mr. DeNormanville stayed up in the middle of the night to engineer
> the operation of the unit, I think he decided that the use of softer rings
> (sacrificial metal) against a hardened casing was the best solution for
> control and wear. If a rubber o-ring was a better solution, he would have
> used one with the proper buna rating.
>
>
>
> I think the bigger problem, now-a-days, is the availability of the metal
> piston rings. Rubber O rings are a dime-a-dozen. If you contact Overdrive
> Spares in the UK, they should be able to supply the proper rings. If they
> too, have decided to go with rubber, then plan on a breakdown/rebuild in a
> shorter period of time than units equipped with the original parts that
> last a long, long time. Hank
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> From: "Michael Salter"
> To: "healeys@autox.team.net" <healeys@autox.team.net>
> Cc:
> Sent: Wednesday August 3 2022 9:38:15AM
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston
>
> I have a question about the "O" ring type of accumulator.
>
> The way the accumulator works is that when it is fully charged the piston
> moves against the spring until the rings reach the radial holes in the wall
> of the housing which acts to relieve any excess pressure.
>
> My concern is that at 3 - 400 p.s.i. oil will obviously get behind the "O"
> ring and force the material of the "O" ring into those radial holes and
> then, as the piston moves back over them, a piece of the ring will shear
> off.
>
> I'm guessing that Laycock-DeNormanville used the complex cast iron rings
> rather than "O" rings because they recognized the possibility of this
> happening.
>
> I'm sure that tiny pieces of the "O" ring would be found in the filter if
> this was a problem. Anyone found them or noticed damage to their
> accumulator "O" ring upon disassembly?
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:08 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
> <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I put one in my BJ8's O/D. It's subjective*--O/Ds seem to work a little
> quicker with cold, thick oil than hot oil--but it cuts maybe a third off
> engagement time on average. I had the O/D on the bench and disassembled,
> and the current one had a scored barrel so, why not? Engagement isn't
> much, if any, harsher than before which, I believe is the reason DMH
> wanted the weaker, smaller spring. If I'd known about it, I might have
> bought AHSpares' with an O-ring instead.
>
> * I've never really 'timed' O/D functioning, it would be a bit awkward;
> anyone done it? I usually tap the clutch pedal when engaging O/D, and
> give a little throttle when disengaging. I thought mine engaged a little
> quicker when I switched to synthetic fluid from engine oil, but in all
> cases confirmation bias may be involved.
>
>
>
> On 8/2/2022 8:09 PM, Joseph Costa wrote:
> > Has anyone installed their upgraded overdrive piston? If so, is it
> > worth the trouble ?
> >
> > Joe
> > BN1 #923
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>
> Healeys@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>
>
--000000000000858d6405e56cfc5c
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">Based upon my observations when the aluminium overdrive a=
ccumulator housings are scored you will invariably find that there are chip=
s out of the non syncro 1st and reverse gears and usually badly damaged lay=
gear rollers.<div dir=3D"auto">Because these gearboxes were not fitted with=
chip gathering magnet originally the tiny hardened steel chips eventually =
find their way into the overdrive then through the overdrive pump gauze (be=
cause the magnets originally fitted in the overdrive have been lost by &quo=
t; the lube guy") and lodge in the accumulator.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D=
"auto">Those chips very quickly score the cylinder as the accumulator pisto=
n moves.</div><div dir=3D"auto">If you are careful to never grind 1st or re=
verse no chips will be created, that will mean that they don't go throu=
gh the laygear bearings or find their way into the overdrive.=C2=A0</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">A magnetic plug in the gearbox is great insurance.</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu., Aug. 4, 2022, 12=
:13 p.m. Warren Dietz, <<a href=3D"mailto:flyhihealey@gmail.com";>flyhihe=
aley@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div =
lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D"word-wrap:break-wor=
d"><div class=3D"m_-3387470703538253816WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>Bob,</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Interesting observation.</p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal">Only 30/40 wt non detergent oil was used from new till 2013=C2=A0 a=
t which time I switched</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">to Redline MT90 @ 181,000=
miles.</p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986=
" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Mail</a> for Windows</p><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:sol=
id #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D=
"border:none;padding:0in"><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.n=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Bob Spidell</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Th=
ursday, August 4, 2022 9:38 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:flyhihealey@=
gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Warren Dietz</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">hea=
leys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive pisto=
n</p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal">Warren,<br><br>Your accumulator piston and housing look to have a bit=
worse scoring than mine; I used synthetic fluid for over half the life of =
mine, I wonder if that made a difference?<br><br><br><br><u></u><u></u></p>=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoN=
ormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Sent from <a href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwl=
ink/?LinkId=3D550986" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Mail</a> for Win=
dows<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">This was the condition of my piston and housing with close=
to 200,000 miles. Tranny was well maintained.<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">The original metal rings lasted 53 years. So I guess with unkno=
wn quality of either of todays metal vs rubber<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal">O rings, let the experiments begin. <u></u><u></u></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><div style=3D"bor=
der:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From: </b><a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Bob Spidell</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Wednesday, A=
ugust 3, 2022 10:12 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>S=
ubject: </b>Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston<u></u><u></u></p></div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"ma=
rgin-bottom:12.0pt">The rings will score the inside of the piston housing, =
though not badly (photo at 205K miles). Looks like there's a side load =
on the piston, probably from the spring.<br><br>I donated this accumulator =
to another owner; never heard how they worked. Moss shows the rings availab=
le (but who knows?).<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 8/3/20=
22 12:36 PM, Henry G Leach via Healeys wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><block=
quote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>I assemble ODs using the original metal rings and have not had any issues =
with pressure or engagement/disengagement. <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">Wh=
en Mr. DeNormanville stayed up in the middle of the night to engineer the o=
peration of the unit,=C2=A0 I think he decided that the use of softer rings=
(sacrificial metal) against a hardened casing was the best solution for co=
ntrol and wear.=C2=A0 If a rubber o-ring was a better solution, he would ha=
ve used one with the proper buna rating.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">I think the bigger problem, now-a-days, is t=
he availability of the metal piston rings.=C2=A0 Rubber O rings are a dime-=
a-dozen.=C2=A0 If you contact Overdrive Spares in the UK, they should be ab=
le to supply the proper rings.=C2=A0 If they too, have decided to go with r=
ubber, then plan on a breakdown/rebuild in a shorter period of time than un=
its equipped with the original parts that last a long, long time. Hank<u></=
u><u></u></p><p>-----------------------------------------</p><p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">From: "Michael Salter" <b=
r>To: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"no=
referrer">"healeys@autox.team.net"</a><br>Cc: <br>Sent: Wednesday=
August 3 2022 9:38:15AM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] DW overdrive piston<u></=
u><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I have a question about the &q=
uot;O" ring type of accumulator.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p=
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Aria=
l",sans-serif">The way the accumulator works is that when it is fully =
charged the piston moves against the spring until the rings reach the radia=
l holes in the wall of the housing which acts to relieve any excess pressur=
e.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">My concern is t=
hat at 3 - 400 p.s.i. oil will obviously get behind the "O" ring =
and force the material of the "O" ring into those radial holes an=
d then, as the piston moves back over them, a piece of the ring will shear =
off.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I'm gues=
sing that Laycock-DeNormanville used the complex cast iron rings rather tha=
n "O" rings because they recognized the possibility of this happe=
ning.</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I'm sure=
that tiny pieces of the "O" ring would be found in the filter if=
this was a problem. Anyone found them or noticed damage to their accumulat=
or "O" ring upon disassembly?</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",s=
ans-serif">M</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=
=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u=
><u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 3, 2022 at 9:08 AM=
Bob Spidell <a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer"><bspidell@comcast.net></a> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></=
div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;paddin=
g:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;mar=
gin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-b=
ottom:12.0pt;margin-left:153.6pt">I put one in my BJ8's O/D. It's s=
ubjective*--O/Ds seem to work a little<br>quicker with cold, thick oil than=
hot oil--but it cuts maybe a third off<br>engagement time on average. I ha=
d the O/D on the bench and disassembled,<br>and the current one had a score=
d barrel so, why not? Engagement isn't<br>much, if any, harsher than be=
fore which, I believe is the reason DMH<br>wanted the weaker, smaller sprin=
g. If I'd known about it, I might have<br>bought AHSpares' with an =
O-ring instead.<br><br>* I've never really 'timed' O/D function=
ing, it would be a bit awkward;<br>anyone done it? I usually tap the clutch=
pedal when engaging O/D, and<br>give a little throttle when disengaging. I=
thought mine engaged a little<br>quicker when I switched to synthetic flui=
d from engine oil, but in all<br>cases confirmation bias may be involved.<b=
r><br><br><br>On 8/2/2022 8:09 PM, Joseph Costa wrote:<br>> Has anyone i=
nstalled their upgraded overdrive piston?=C2=A0 If so, is it<br>> worth =
the trouble ?<br>><br>> Joe<br>> BN1 #923<br>><u></u><u></u></p=
></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u>=
<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p></blockquote><p c=
lass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></p></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
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s/michaelsalter@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
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r>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
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