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Re: [Shop-talk] Welding a full tank

To: <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Welding a full tank
From: "Randall" <tr3driver@ca.rr.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 16:17:56 -0700
> I don't know if this really applies, but I'd also heard on the internet
> (so it must be true) that current cars have such good emissions that
> the
> old suicide trick of putting a hose from the exhaust into the window
> doesn't work anymore.  If that's true, that would seem to imply that
> there's still oxygen in the exhaust?

Not enough to argue about.  The "old suicide trick" was not based on lack of
oxygen, but presence of carbon monoxide (CO).  CO is a cumulative poison, as
it binds to your red blood cells in place of oxygen (so they can't carry
oxygen through your body).  You can literally die of CO poisoning while
still breathing air with plenty of oxygen.  And one of the early side
effects of CO poisoning is unconsciousness, so in theory you will be asleep
for the majority of the other effects (headache, nausea, etc.)

The thing is, the "old suicide trick" never did work all that well, and with
less CO in the exhaust it's even less likely to work.  It could still be
done, I think, but you're going to have to tolerant some pretty crappy
feelings without opening the car door.  Probably just as easy to stick your
head in a bucket of water and not pull it out.

But I believe there is still enough CO in car exhaust to poison you.
Although the official standards are in grams per mile (so not applicable at
idle), the test limits used for tailpipe sniffers still allow several
thousand ppm (0.1% = 1000 ppm).  And according to 
http://biology.about.com/od/molecularbiology/a/carbon_monoxide.htm
800 ppm will kill you within 2-3 hours, and even half of that is "life
threatening".

Personally, I think I'll go on using water.  IMO it's just too hard to tell
when a tank is "full" of exhaust instead of air.  In fact, you'll
effectively never get ALL the air out, as the exhaust mixes with whatever is
in the tank and it's the mixture that comes out.  Put in one "thankful" of
exhaust, you've got 50% air.  Put in another, you've got 25% air.  Another
gives you 12.5%.  How much O2 does it actually take to support combustion??

-- Randall 
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