I should have stated ths first, but I absolutely agree that the BMW is
misclassed.
However, if everybody who didn't have a chance of winning didn't come, there
wouldn't be 1100 people here!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: Arlyn Strano <arlyn@stranoparts.com>
To: Dave Whitworth <dave@wcsllc.net>; <autox@autox.team.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:33 PM
Subject: RE: M3 Out of ESP - No Longer a Controversy
> Every likes to win and I am sure that if you did drive Bob's BMW, even
> though you think you wouldn't win, there is a small part of you that would
> hope you would. Don't understand the idea of expecting drivers to
continue
> competing in a class where they are almost assured there is not a
> possibility of a win. The option to staying away is to petition to have
> your car moved to a class you know you can dominate. Why else was this
car
> moved from CSP where the BMW did not win to ESP?
>
> Arlyn
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-autox@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-autox@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of Dave Whitworth
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 6:56 PM
> To: autox@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: M3 Out of ESP - No Longer a Controversy
>
>
> Getting persoal is what brngs down this list, so please don't misinterpret
> the following:
>
> 1) If an unnamed number of ESP pony cars are staying away from National's
> because of the BMW's what does that prove. It is hard to prove a point on
> what someone might have done :) The results this year should help prove
the
> case, but staying away doesn't help.
>
> 2) ANY driver who finishes in the top 10 or so in ANY class at Nationals
> deserves it. They are a quality driver who finished in the spot they
> earned, regardless of car. My drivng in Bob's BMW would still leave me in
> the back of the pack. Judging someone's driving from 1000's of miles away
> is an intertesting concept!
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Winchell <jwinchell@Giftspot.com>
> To: 'Dave Kizerian' <davekizerian@hotmail.com>; <autox@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 2:16 PM
> Subject: RE: M3 Out of ESP - No Longer a Controversy
>
>
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: Dave Kizerian [mailto:davekizerian@hotmail.com]
> > >So what about the 4th place eagle talon? Should they boot him too? He
> beat
> > >Merridith?
> >
> > The best Talon entry was 2.5 seconds slower than the best ponycar entry.
> The
> > DSM's are fine in ESP. Fedja and Brian were 8 and 9 last year and this
> year
> > (not counting the M3s, the are 9 and 2 this year). This isn't an issue.
> >
> > JW> And lest the "ESP ponycar drivers are weak crowd continue their
> whine",
> > JW> Mark Daddio the god, took first place in FS (running in the heat
right
> > after
> > JW> ESP ran) and his time would have been 16th in ESP.
> >
> > DK>What the hell does the place of somebody else in a different class
have
> > to
> > DK>do with whether the M3 does or doesn't belong in ESP?
> >
> > My message referred to a COMMON criticism on this message board that
said
> > the ESP drivers/cars are weak because they are barely competitive with
the
> > top FS car/drivers. That's what Daddio's 1st place FS win has to do with
> the
> > M3s in ESP.
> >
> > JW> It is unfortunate that national champion level drivers were deprived
a
> > JW> national championship this year because of the SCCA's decision.
Paula
> > JW> Whitney and (probably) Eileen Lindberg should have had a ProSolo and
> > Solo
> > JW> National Championship. Mark Madaresh should have had his 2nd in a
row.
> >
> > DK>So you're honestly saying that Bob Tunnell, Todd Green, Jim
Leithauser,
> > and
> > DK>Patty Tunnell are NOT national level drivers?
> >
> > How do you get that interpretation?
> >
> > >I've been really happy listening to you pull ONLY the numbers, scores,
HP
> > >ratings, weights, Times, etc... That make the M3 look bad, and not ALL
> of
> > >the viable numbers.
> >
> > I've been refuting wrong information for months now as well as agreeing
> when
> > I've seen mistakes (as pointed out by others). There's one of those
> messages
> > yesterday in the M3 Launch Performance thread.
> >
> > >P.S. I do agree that the M3 should be moved out of ESP
> >
> > Well that's good. I'm not sure then why you are saying what you're
saying
> in
> > the rest of the e-mail.
> >
> > >but saying that Bob and Patty aren't "national champion level drivers "
> is
> > BS.
> >
> > So is implying that I ever said that.
> >
> > OTOH, you can clearly infer from my statements that Todd Green is not a
> > national champion level driver, and is not even close to a number of
> people
> > he beat in ESP today. Bob and Patty are great drivers. So are the
national
> > champions they beat by being unfairly classed. I hope the weather
> conditions
> > are nearly identical for the ASP,BSP,CSP, ASPL,BSPL,CSPL classes so we
can
> > see where the M3's would have likely placed if they had been classed in
a
> > class with closer performance capabilities.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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