[TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 14, Issue 159

Carl Carlson actionsl at att.net
Sun Jul 18 12:27:30 MDT 2021


Go with Toyota transmission 

Carl

> On Jul 18, 2021, at 11:07 AM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> 
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Art McEwen)
>   2. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Kinderlehrer)
>   3. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Art McEwen)
>   4. Re: TR7 salvage in San Diego (DAVID MASSEY)
>   5. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Randy and Valerie DeRuiter)
>   6. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (DAVID MASSEY)
>   7. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Dave Connitt)
>   8. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Art McEwen)
>   9. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (EDWARD WOODS)
>  10. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (EDWARD WOODS)
>  11. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Art McEwen)
>  12. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Paul Tegler)
>  13. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (Paul Tegler)
>  14. Re: TR3 O/D Solenoid plate (DAVID MASSEY)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 14:23:49 -0400
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <8EB42F8A-94FA-43BC-8C0D-A233C78A9385 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
> 
> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
> 
>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Art
>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>>> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
>>> 
>>> Dave 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
>>> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
>>> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>>> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>> 
>>> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Art 
>>> TS64???LO 
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 12:35:37 -0700
> From: "Kinderlehrer" <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
> To: "'Art McEwen'" <artwmcewen at gmail.com>, "'DAVID MASSEY'"
>    <dave1massey at cs.com>
> Cc: <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <001b01d77b42$ec0864b0$c4192e10$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD. 
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
> To: DAVID MASSEY
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
> 
> 
> 
> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Art
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
> 
> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
> 
> 
> 
> Dave 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> 
> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 
> Art 
> 
> TS64???LO 
> 
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  <http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs> http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 15:44:43 -0400
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
> Cc: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <110594F3-8CE4-4DE9-BF70-79FB58AFEE2A at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Bob, solenoid itself is operating fine but o/d is not engaging (running in 2nd gear on jacks).  Pretty sure it?s not the adjustment as I?ve lined it up with the hole on the far side (and a little either side).  Won?t engage when operated by hand either.
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD.
>> Bob
>> 
>> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
>> To: DAVID MASSEY
>> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>> 
>> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
>> 
>> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Art
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
>> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
>> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>> 
>> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Art
>> TS64???LO
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:29:17 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> To: "triumphstag at gmail.com" <triumphstag at gmail.com>,
>    "triumphs at autox.team.net" <triumphs at autox.team.net>,
>    "TTSCC at googlegroups.com" <TTSCC at googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR7 salvage in San Diego
> Message-ID: <1668072844.96869.1626568157579 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Oooo.? Engine fire.? Still, it looks to be in good shape otherwise.? If someone was looking for a ground-up project this might not be a bad start.
> 
> Dave 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sujit Roy <triumphstag at gmail.com>
> To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>; TTSCC at googlegroups.com
> Sent: Fri, Jul 16, 2021 5:56 pm
> Subject: [TR] TR7 salvage in San Diego
> 
> https://www.copart.com/lot/45637131/salvage-1980-triumph-car-all-models-ca-san-diego
> 
> -- 
> Sujit Roy
> Cupertino, California
> https://triumphstagblog.wordpress.com/
> 
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:31:59 +0000
> From: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <deruiterville at hotmail.com>
> To: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> Cc: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>, "triumphs at autox.team.net"
>    <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID:
>    <CH2PR12MB3911A3AF20C52F5281137EE4B9E09 at CH2PR12MB3911.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Art
> 
> I may have missed all the discussion but you really need to get the operating pressure if the overdrive to help diagnose, especially since you see the solenoid working.
> 
> Jay Holekamp makes a very nice gauge for this
> 
> http://www.geocities.ws/jholekamp/
> 
> Cheers
> Randy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:47 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Hi Bob, solenoid itself is operating fine but o/d is not engaging (running in 2nd gear on jacks).  Pretty sure it?s not the adjustment as I?ve lined it up with the hole on the far side (and a little either side).  Won?t engage when operated by hand either.
> 
> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD.
> Bob
> 
> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
> To: DAVID MASSEY
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> 
> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
> 
> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
> 
> 
> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com<mailto:artwmcewen at gmail.com>> wrote:
> ?
> Thanks!
> Art
> 
> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com<mailto:dave1massey at cs.com>> wrote:
> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com<mailto:artwmcewen at gmail.com>>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Art
> TS64???LO
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/deruiterville@hotmail.com
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 00:37:29 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> To: "artwmcewen at gmail.com" <artwmcewen at gmail.com>,
>    "kinderlehrer at comcast.net" <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
> Cc: "triumphs at autox.team.net" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <373655020.95850.1626568649347 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> With no load on the wheels the engine speed will not change but the speedo will jump up.? This can be misleading if you don't know what to watch.
> 
> Dave 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
> Cc: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>; triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Sat, Jul 17, 2021 2:44 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> 
> Hi Bob, solenoid itself is operating fine but o/d is not engaging (running in 2nd gear on jacks). ?Pretty sure it?s not the adjustment as I?ve lined it up with the hole on the far side (and a little either side). ?Won?t engage when operated by hand either.
> 
> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> #yiv6808487530 #yiv6808487530 -- _filtered {} _filtered {} _filtered {}#yiv6808487530 #yiv6808487530 p.yiv6808487530MsoNormal, #yiv6808487530 li.yiv6808487530MsoNormal, #yiv6808487530 div.yiv6808487530MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New;}#yiv6808487530 a:link, #yiv6808487530 span.yiv6808487530MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6808487530 a:visited, #yiv6808487530 span.yiv6808487530MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6808487530 p.yiv6808487530MsoAcetate, #yiv6808487530 li.yiv6808487530MsoAcetate, #yiv6808487530 div.yiv6808487530MsoAcetate {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv6808487530 span.yiv6808487530EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv6808487530 span.yiv6808487530BalloonTextChar {}#yiv6808487530 .yiv6808487530MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered {}#yiv6808487530 div.yiv6808487530WordSection1 {}#yiv6808487530 Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. E
> ven if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD. Bob ?From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
> To: DAVID MASSEY
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate ?Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive. ?:(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were. ?I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere. ?Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
> 
> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
> ?Thanks!Art ?On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.? Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple. ?Dave  ? ?-----Original Message-----
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plateIt's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"? ?Thanks, ?Art TS64???LO ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 20:44:04 -0400
> From: Dave Connitt <dconnitt at fuse.net>
> To: Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <deruiterville at hotmail.com>
> Cc: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <90012BB3-B6D5-4ED8-A44B-390E81F3F732 at fuse.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I agree with you Randy, he needs to get a pressure gauge and see if it?s building pressure. If he sees pressure then maybe when the lever on the solenoid was loose, he inadvertently moved tha actuating lever enough to let the metering valve on the opposite end drop down so now the valve isn?t turning the overdrive on  and off? It?s easy to do, ask me how I know.
> Dave Connitt 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 8:32 PM, Randy and Valerie DeRuiter <deruiterville at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ? Hi Art
>> 
>> I may have missed all the discussion but you really need to get the operating pressure if the overdrive to help diagnose, especially since you see the solenoid working.
>> 
>> Jay Holekamp makes a very nice gauge for this
>> 
>> http://www.geocities.ws/jholekamp/
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Randy
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:47 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Hi Bob, solenoid itself is operating fine but o/d is not engaging (running in 2nd gear on jacks).  Pretty sure it?s not the adjustment as I?ve lined it up with the hole on the far side (and a little either side).  Won?t engage when operated by hand either.
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD.
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
>>>> To: DAVID MASSEY
>>>> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>>> 
>>>> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>> Art
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>>>> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
>>>> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
>>>> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>>>> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>>> 
>>>> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Art
>>>> TS64???LO
>>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>>> 
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
>>>> 
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/deruiterville@hotmail.com
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dconnitt@fuse.net
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 21:17:45 -0400
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> Cc: kinderlehrer at comcast.net, triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <743DABE4-C3F0-45F5-9114-4435B9009356 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Yeah that?s what I?m thinking, however before the surgery there was a definite distinction when it engaged and the wheels turned faster.   Will road test it before panicking.
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 8:37 PM, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> With no load on the wheels the engine speed will not change but the speedo will jump up.  This can be misleading if you don't know what to watch.
>> 
>> Dave 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
>> To: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
>> Cc: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>; triumphs at autox.team.net
>> Sent: Sat, Jul 17, 2021 2:44 pm
>> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>> 
>> Hi Bob, solenoid itself is operating fine but o/d is not engaging (running in 2nd gear on jacks).  Pretty sure it?s not the adjustment as I?ve lined it up with the hole on the far side (and a little either side).  Won?t engage when operated by hand either.
>> 
>>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>> ?
>> 
>> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD.
>> Bob
>> 
>> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
>> To: DAVID MASSEY
>> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>> 
>> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
>> 
>> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
>> ?
>> Thanks!
>> Art
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
>> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
>> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Art
>> TS64???LO
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 21:18:42 -0400 (EDT)
> From: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1 at comcast.net>
> To: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>, Art McEwen
>    <artwmcewen at gmail.com>, DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <1517129293.268042.1626571123157 at connect.xfinity.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 21:20:59 -0400 (EDT)
> From: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1 at comcast.net>
> To: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>, Kinderlehrer
>    <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <447776436.268044.1626571259477 at connect.xfinity.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 21:24:42 -0400
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1 at comcast.net>
> Cc: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>, DAVID MASSEY
>    <dave1massey at cs.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <5BE5F607-B0A3-4475-B43F-E646A6648349 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> There?s nothing wrong with the solenoid.  It operates just fine.
> 
> I removed and replaced the solenoid plate to deal with a leak and now the solenoid doesn?t engage the o/d anymore while the car is running on jacks.   I was hoping to avoid a half assembled road test.
> 
>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 9:18 PM, EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1 at comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?
>> A pressure test with a gauge from Jay Holekamp is a great idea. While your waiting for its arrival, loosen the clamping bolt and take the car for a ride. Reach across the transmission and operate the lever manually (the one you put the 3/16? drill into when you adjust the solenoid). If the overdrive kicks in, you have a solenoid or solenoid adjustment problem. The overdrives O.K. Better still have a passenger operate the lever, so that you can concentrate on your driving. And watch out for that spinning prop shaft. Loose clothing not allowed.
>> 
>> By the way, if you have a functioning ammeter and the solenoid is connected on its load side, you can observe the operation of the solenoid on the meter.  
>> 
>> Ed Woods
>>>> On 07/17/2021 3:35 PM Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
>>> To: DAVID MASSEY
>>> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
>>> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive.  :(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere.  Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Art
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.  Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
>>> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
>>> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>>> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>> 
>>> It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Art
>>> 
>>> TS64???LO
>>> 
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
>>> 
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net ** 
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive 
>>> 
>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fogbro1@comcast.net
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 21:40:59 -0400
> From: Paul Tegler <ptegler at verizon.net>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <d62fe705-0e92-37a7-00a6-8c60aae1e133 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> it's a ~20 amp to engage, then when the core bottoms out it switches to 
> a 5-8 amp holding coil to keep it in place.
> 
> ptegler
> 
>> On 7/17/2021 9:24 PM, Art McEwen wrote:
>> There?s nothing wrong with the solenoid. ?It operates just fine.
>> 
>> I removed and replaced the solenoid plate to deal with a leak and now 
>> the solenoid doesn?t engage the o/d anymore while the car is running 
>> on jacks. ? I was hoping to avoid a half assembled road test.
>> 
>>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 9:18 PM, EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> A pressure test with a gauge from Jay Holekamp is a great idea. While 
>>> your waiting for its arrival, loosen the clamping bolt and take the 
>>> car for a ride. Reach across the transmission and operate the lever 
>>> manually (the one you put the 3/16? drill into when you adjust the 
>>> solenoid). If the overdrive kicks in, you have a solenoid or solenoid 
>>> adjustment problem. The overdrives O.K. Better still have a passenger 
>>> operate the lever, so that you can concentrate on your driving. And 
>>> watch out for that spinning prop shaft. Loose clothing not allowed.
>>> By the way, if you have a functioning ammeter and the solenoid is 
>>> connected on its load side, you can observe the operation of the 
>>> solenoid on the meter.
>>> Ed Woods
>>>> On 07/17/2021 3:35 PM Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if 
>>>> it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed 
>>>> to engage the OD.
>>>> 
>>>> Bob
>>>> 
>>>> *From:*Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf 
>>>> Of *Art McEwen
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
>>>> *To:* DAVID MASSEY
>>>> *Cc:* triumphs at autox.team.net
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>>> 
>>>> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got 
>>>> the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the 
>>>> overdrive. ?:(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re 
>>>> still seated where they were.
>>>> 
>>>> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I 
>>>> tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere. ?Thinking 
>>>> of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com 
>>>> <mailto:artwmcewen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    Thanks!
>>>> 
>>>>    Art
>>>> 
>>>>    On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com
>>>>    <mailto:dave1massey at cs.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your
>>>>        solenoid adjustment.? Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty
>>>>        simple.
>>>> 
>>>>        Dave
>>>> 
>>>>        -----Original Message-----
>>>>        From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com
>>>>        <mailto:artwmcewen at gmail.com>>
>>>>        To: triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
>>>>        Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>>>>        Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>>> 
>>>>        It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen
>>>>        the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the
>>>>        plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove
>>>>        entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>>>> 
>>>>        Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>>        Art
>>>> 
>>>>        TS64???LO
>>>> 
>>>>        ** triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autoxteam.net> **
>>>> 
>>>>        Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>>        <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>>>        Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>>>>        <http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs>http://www.team.net/archive
>>>>        <http://www.team.net/archive>
>>>> 
>>>>        Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>>        http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
>>>>        <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com>
>>>> 
>>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>>> 
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs 
>>>> http://www.team.net/archive
>>>> 
>>>> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
>>>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fogbro1@comcast.net 
>> 
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@verizon.net
> 
> -- 
> Paul Tegler
> ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 21:52:38 -0400
> From: Paul Tegler <ptegler at verizon.net>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <b9fa5701-3e82-51fa-e62d-69864de2c35f at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> put it third or fourth to get some speed (IE: pressure built up) to that 
> output shaft spinning the eccentric pump lobe.
> 
> A 200-300 rpm is barely enough to maintain proper pressure.
> 
> ptegler
> 
>> On 7/17/2021 3:44 PM, Art McEwen wrote:
>> Hi Bob, solenoid itself is operating fine but o/d is not engaging 
>> (running in 2nd gear on jacks). ?Pretty sure it?s not the adjustment 
>> as I?ve lined it up with the hole on the far side (and a little either 
>> side). ?Won?t engage when operated by hand either.
>> 
>>> On Jul 17, 2021, at 3:35 PM, Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> 
>>> Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if 
>>> it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed 
>>> to engage the OD.
>>> 
>>> Bob
>>> 
>>> *From:*Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf 
>>> Of *Art McEwen
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
>>> *To:* DAVID MASSEY
>>> *Cc:* triumphs at autox.team.net
>>> *Subject:* Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>> 
>>> Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got 
>>> the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the 
>>> overdrive. ?:(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re 
>>> still seated where they were.
>>> 
>>> I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I 
>>> tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere. ?Thinking of 
>>> taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com 
>>> <mailto:artwmcewen at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>    ?
>>> 
>>>    Thanks!
>>> 
>>>    Art
>>> 
>>>    On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cscom
>>>    <mailto:dave1massey at cs.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>        Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your
>>>        solenoid adjustment.? Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty
>>>        simple.
>>> 
>>>        Dave
>>> 
>>>        -----Original Message-----
>>>        From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com
>>>        <mailto:artwmcewen at gmail.com>>
>>>        To: triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
>>>        Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
>>>        Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
>>> 
>>>        It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen
>>>        the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the
>>>        plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove
>>>        entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?
>>> 
>>>        Thanks,
>>> 
>>>        Art
>>> 
>>>        TS64???LO
>>> 
>>>        ** triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net> **
>>> 
>>>        Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>        <http://www.team.net/donate.html>
>>>        Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs
>>>        <http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs>http://www.team.net/archive
>>>        <http://www.team.net/archive>
>>> 
>>>        Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>>        http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com
>>>        <http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com>
>>> 
>> 
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs  http://www.team.net/archive
>> 
>> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ptegler@verizon.net
> 
> -- 
> Paul Tegler
> ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 12:31:21 +0000 (UTC)
> From: DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> To: "fogbro1 at comcast.net" <fogbro1 at comcast.net>,
>    "kinderlehrer at comcast.net" <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>,
>    "artwmcewen at gmail.com" <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> Cc: "triumphs at autox.team.net" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> Message-ID: <1676143611.132465.1626611481894 at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> That reminds me, using the 3/16 drill bit technique (as detailed in the repair manual) to adjust the solenoid may or may not work.? Due to wear and manufacturing tolerances it is not uncommon that the adjustment needs to be deeper than what this method provides.? I found that I needed to go about 1/10th inch (2mm) beyond that to get reliable operation.
> I don't remember if this works with the engine not running but if you manually operate the lever you can feel where it engages the valve.? If you see the holes line up before or at this point in the range of movement then you will need to set the solenoid where it will pull the lever even further.
> 
> Dave 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: EDWARD WOODS <fogbro1 at comcast.net>
> To: Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net>; Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>; DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Sat, Jul 17, 2021 8:18 pm
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate
> 
>  A pressure test with a gauge from Jay Holekamp is a great idea. While your waiting for its arrival, loosen the clamping bolt and take the car for a ride. Reach across the transmission and operate the lever manually (the one you put the 3/16? drill into when you adjust the solenoid). If the overdrive kicks in, you have a solenoid or solenoid adjustment problem. The overdrives O.K. Better still have a passenger operate the lever, so that you can concentrate on your driving. And watch out for that spinning prop shaft. Loose clothing not allowed.   ?   By the way, if you have a functioning ammeter and the solenoid is connected on its load side, you can observe the operation of the solenoid on the meter. ?   ?   Ed Woods  
>  On 07/17/2021 3:35 PM Kinderlehrer <kinderlehrer at comcast.net> wrote:   ?   ?   Before you do anything else, do a load test on the battery. Even if it is producing 12 volts it may not be producing the 20 amps needed to engage the OD.  Bob ?   From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Art McEwen
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2021 11:24 AM
> To: DAVID MASSEY
> Cc: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate   ?  Nothing went sproing when I took the plate off and I think I?ve got the leak sealed but no amount of solenoid adjustment will engage the overdrive. ?:(. The springs weren?t removed and I presume they?re still seated where they were.   ?   I?m wondering if some of the sludge in the bottom of the case that I tried to remove got relocated to a valve body somewhere. ?Thinking of taking it for a road test then changing fluid again.   
> 
> On Jul 15, 2021, at 1:54 PM, Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com> wrote:  
>  ?  Thanks!  Art   ?   On Thu, Jul 15, 2021, 11:25 AM DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com> wrote:  
>   Nothing will go sproing but you will likely loose your solenoid adjustment.? Not a big deal as adjusting is pretty simple.   ?   Dave    ?   ?   -----Original Message-----
> From: Art McEwen <artwmcewen at gmail.com>
> To: triumphs at autox.team.net
> Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2021 9:48 am
> Subject: [TR] TR3 O/D Solenoid plate    It's weeping oil (even more than "acceptable"), can I loosen the 4 screws to add gasket goop without misaligning the plunger/spring thingy behind it or is it safe to remove entirely while in place without something going "sprong"?   ?   Thanks,   ?   Art    TS64???LO     ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com   
> 
>  ** triumphs at autox.team.net ** 
> 
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/triumphs http://www.team.net/archive 
> 
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/fogbro1@comcast.net 
> 
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> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 14, Issue 159
> *****************************************



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