[TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 11, Issue 145
JOSEPH MATO
joemato at sbcglobal.net
Wed Jun 20 15:14:56 MDT 2018
John Esposito I brought an overdrive in the UK and had John put it together. I helped him and was impressed with his modified mainshafts and other parts he devised. Price was reasonable. He has a backlog of work and guys stop off to say Hi. Works with the car clubs. Good guy. Joe Mato
From: "triumphs-request at autox.team.net" <triumphs-request at autox.team.net>
To: triumphs at autox.team.net
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 5:01 PM
Subject: Triumphs Digest, Vol 11, Issue 145
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: OD Oil (Geo Hahn)
2. Re: OD Oil (Wbeech at flash.net)
3. Re: OD Oil (TERRY SMITH)
4. Re: OD Oil (Randall)
5. another one for the books (Paul Tegler)
6. Re: OD Oil (TERRY SMITH)
7. Re: OD Oil (glemon at neb.rr.com)
8. Re: OD Oil (Geo Hahn)
9. Re: OD Oil (David P)
10. Re: OD Oil (Randall)
11. Re: another one for the books (dave)
12. Re: OD Oil (Jeff Scarbrough)
13. Re: OD Oil (Reihing, Randall S.)
14. Re: OD Oil (Reihing, Randall S.)
15. Re: OD Oil (Randall)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 11:32:58 -0700
From: Geo Hahn <ahwahneetr at gmail.com>
To: TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID:
<CANzE1bGp3FGF__74x7KiA0JWM8YbaR699o7-tZK-fONHHcJZzw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Terry -
As I recall, John Esposito recommended straight 30W *non-detergent *which I
used for a few years before switching to MT90.
I think you want non-detergent to avoid foaming (could be wrong about the
reason though).
Geo
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:34 AM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello, everyone. Now I've got the OD sorted and working well
> consistently, I thought to turn attention to the OD oil. I'm running MT-90
> now, mostly because it's the most highly recommended by you all and it was
> necessary to eliminate every possible variable that might have been
> contributing to the OD woes I was having.
>
> When the OD was rebuilt, the technician put in simple Napa 30 weight oil.
> He was convinced it worked just fine.
>
> So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent. I suspect
> so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
>
> Thanks, everyone,
> Terry Smith, '59 TR3A TS 58667
> New Hampshire
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
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> options/triumphs/ahwahneetr at gmail.com
>
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:47:07 -0500
From: "Wbeech at flash.net" <wbeech at flash.net>
To: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
Cc: "Triumphs \(triumphs at autox.team.net\)" <triumphs at autox.team.net>,
TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <3F7B11C0-BB8B-456C-9FF8-11894803111A at flash.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
MT 90 in my ?58 w/OD, never misses a beat.
Bill B
TS30800L
Sent from my Apple II+
On Jun 19, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:34 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello, everyone. Now I've got the OD sorted and working well consistently, I thought to turn attention to the OD oil. I'm running MT-90 now, mostly because it's the most highly recommended by you all and it was necessary to eliminate every possible variable that might have been contributing to the OD woes I was having.
>
> When the OD was rebuilt, the technician put in simple Napa 30 weight oil. He was convinced it worked just fine.
>
> So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent. I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
I think the ND is to eliminate foaming. I started with 30 weight
Non-Detergent in mine, but switched on the second change to MT-90.
Works a treat.
Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.
** triumphs at autox.team.net **
Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/wbeech@flash.net
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:03:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net>
To: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>, "Wbeech at flash.net"
<wbeech at flash.net>
Cc: "Triumphs \(triumphs at autox.team.net\)" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <861600500.428.1529438591220 at connect.xfinity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thank you all for responding. I kinda thought it was the foaming issue. I seem to recall this, but don't know if it's accurate:
Non-detergent in the engine, to eliminate foaming at the mouth.
Non-detergent in the tranny to eliminating indigestion.
Non-detergent in the rear-end to eliminate...well, I won't go into it...:0)
That about right??
> On June 19, 2018 at 2:47 PM "Wbeech at flash.net mailto:Wbeech at flash.net " wrote:
>
>
> MT 90 in my ?58 w/OD, never misses a beat.
> Bill B
> TS30800L
>
> Sent from my Apple II+
>
> On Jun 19, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
>
> > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:34 PM, TERRY SMITH wrote:
> > Hello, everyone. Now I've got the OD sorted and working well consistently, I thought to turn attention to the OD oil. I'm running MT-90 now, mostly because it's the most highly recommended by you all and it was necessary to eliminate every possible variable that might have been contributing to the OD woes I was having.
> >
> > When the OD was rebuilt, the technician put in simple Napa 30 weight oil. He was convinced it worked just fine.
> >
> > So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent. I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
> >
> > > I think the ND is to eliminate foaming. I started with 30 weight
> Non-Detergent in mine, but switched on the second change to MT-90.
> Works a treat.
>
> Jeff Scarbrough
> Corrosion Acres, Ga.
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team mailto:triumphs at autox.team .net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/wbeech@flash.net
>
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:29:54 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>
To: "'TERRY SMITH'" <terryrs at comcast.net>, <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <EC43D1F024274FA18295D418EF54B3B7 at RYPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent.
> I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
Thing is, the factory switched from recommending motor oil to specifying
GL4. Seems to me they must have had a reason for making the change.
Ken Gillanders (formerly British Frame and Engine) looked into the reason
for the change, and was reportedly told by an ex-factory engineer that they
were having trouble with premature failure of countershaft bearings/thrust
washers. They felt the EP additives in the GL4 would help protect the
bearing surfaces. Evidently it worked, because they continued to specify
GL4 through the end of TR6 production.
I can't say whether that is true, but I note that John Esposito also
acknowledges it as a problem on these gearboxes, and offers to sell an
(expensive) conversion to stronger bearings.
His post about GL4 being too thick makes no sense at all to me. Even when
the factory did recommend motor oil, they specified 50 weight for temps over
70F. 50 weight is actually thicker than 90 (at the same temperature)!
(They are rated on different scales, which deliberately are offset from each
other. No such thing as 50 weight gear oil, nor 90 weight motor oil.)
-- Randall
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:30:18 -0400
From: Paul Tegler <ptegler at verizon.net>
To: "CARS nass at yahoogroups.com" <nass at yahoogroups.com>,
"triumphs at autox.team.net" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] another one for the books
Message-ID: <964db928-9226-a990-d5e1-8ce586aea6f7 at verizon.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
another one for the books
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spitfire-1500/223008157307?hash=item33ec526e7b:g:A24AAOSwQb1bGHjV&vxp=mtr
No starter installed (no room...it's in the boot)? fuel lines not even
hooked up (underneath pics) didn't even uprate the front brakes (to GT6
at least)
looks like ultra short rear a-arms... (a Cougar? XR7 rear
suspension/diff?)...can't see what he did for rear shocks/springs
...man if he'd only have used the '93-94 vintage intake (lower slung
'V') it would have all fit under the bonnet without that ridiculous
bonnet scope
Nice enough looking car but no for that asking price!!!!!
anyone want a very clean 50 mile post resto job spit! I'd go 11K obo? 13
I'll throw in an o/d and hardtop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs_dLi2nJE <https://youtu.be/kvs_dLi2nJE>
--
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net www.teglerizer.com
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Message: 6
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:41:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net>
To: Randall <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <244469541.45635.1529444487801 at connect.xfinity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Okay. As usual, I don't totally understand the technology. Ugh! I was an English Major! Then human services administration....
Is the answer that, since John Esposito put it in, ...that NAPA 30 wt non-detergent is okay? ...Or should I just stay with Mt-90 as all recommend here and use the 3 quarts of NAPA 30 in the lawn mower?I
Sorry to be so dense!!!!
Terry
> On June 19, 2018 at 5:29 PM Randall <TR3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent.
> > I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
>
> Thing is, the factory switched from recommending motor oil to specifying
> GL4. Seems to me they must have had a reason for making the change.
>
> Ken Gillanders (formerly British Frame and Engine) looked into the reason
> for the change, and was reportedly told by an ex-factory engineer that they
> were having trouble with premature failure of countershaft bearings/thrust
> washers. They felt the EP additives in the GL4 would help protect the
> bearing surfaces. Evidently it worked, because they continued to specify
> GL4 through the end of TR6 production.
>
> I can't say whether that is true, but I note that John Esposito also
> acknowledges it as a problem on these gearboxes, and offers to sell an
> (expensive) conversion to stronger bearings.
>
> His post about GL4 being too thick makes no sense at all to me. Even when
> the factory did recommend motor oil, they specified 50 weight for temps over
> 70F. 50 weight is actually thicker than 90 (at the same temperature)!
> (They are rated on different scales, which deliberately are offset from each
> other. No such thing as 50 weight gear oil, nor 90 weight motor oil.)
>
> -- Randall
>
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Message: 7
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:36:03 -0400
From: <glemon at neb.rr.com>
To: "Wbeech at flash.net" <wbeech at flash.net>, Jeff Scarbrough
<fishplate at gmail.com>, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net>
Cc: "Triumphs \(triumphs at autox.team.net\)" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <20180619233603.OB6YP.30369.root at cdptpa-web19>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
As I understand it non-detergent is recommended because detergent oils suspend small impurities, dirt, ground metal etc. with the idea that the oil filter will screen them out.
In a gearbox, or really old car with no oil filter, you want the dirt and such to settle to the bottom rather than float around and cause trouble.
I think the multi viscosity additives promote the foaming. But I am not chemist or engineer, have just spent too much time reading about this stuff.
Greg Lemon
TR250
---- TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote:
> Thank you all for responding. I kinda thought it was the foaming issue. I seem to recall this, but don't know if it's accurate:
>
>
> Non-detergent in the engine, to eliminate foaming at the mouth.
>
> Non-detergent in the tranny to eliminating indigestion.
>
> Non-detergent in the rear-end to eliminate...well, I won't go into it...:0)
>
>
> That about right??
>
> > On June 19, 2018 at 2:47 PM "Wbeech at flash.net mailto:Wbeech at flash.net " wrote:
> >
> >
> > MT 90 in my ?58 w/OD, never misses a beat.
> > Bill B
> > TS30800L
> >
> > Sent from my Apple II+
> >
> > On Jun 19, 2018, at 12:59 PM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:34 PM, TERRY SMITH wrote:
> > > Hello, everyone. Now I've got the OD sorted and working well consistently, I thought to turn attention to the OD oil. I'm running MT-90 now, mostly because it's the most highly recommended by you all and it was necessary to eliminate every possible variable that might have been contributing to the OD woes I was having.
> > >
> > > When the OD was rebuilt, the technician put in simple Napa 30 weight oil. He was convinced it worked just fine.
> > >
> > > So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent. I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
> > >
> > > > I think the ND is to eliminate foaming. I started with 30 weight
> > Non-Detergent in mine, but switched on the second change to MT-90.
> > Works a treat.
> >
> > Jeff Scarbrough
> > Corrosion Acres, Ga.
> >
> > ** triumphs at autox.team mailto:triumphs at autox.team .net **
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/wbeech@flash.net
> >
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:51:31 -0700
From: Geo Hahn <ahwahneetr at gmail.com>
To: TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>, Randall <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID:
<CANzE1bHX9Ovxr-ejuRi901WFpSwtaOqBWMCdpP7ix-2krwu-5w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 2:41 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote:
> .Or should I just stay with Mt-90 as all recommend here and use the 3
> quarts of NAPA 30 in the lawn mower?I
>
That is what I did. Except I do not have a lawnmower (or a lawn) - fill
every oil can, use it on the rear springs, try it in the SUs, etc.
Geo
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 19:25:39 -0600
From: David P <frogeye at porterscustom.com>
To: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>, TERRY SMITH
<terryrs at comcast.net>
Cc: "Triumphs \(triumphs at autox.team.net\)" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <8b6f1b24-75c8-db3e-55ed-ad9ceb3c1f11 at porterscustom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Non detergent oils are formulated to allow particulates to settle out
and not be recirculated. DaveP
On 6/19/2018 11:59 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:34 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hello, everyone. Now I've got the OD sorted and working well consistently, I thought to turn attention to the OD oil. I'm running MT-90 now, mostly because it's the most highly recommended by you all and it was necessary to eliminate every possible variable that might have been contributing to the OD woes I was having.
>>
>> When the OD was rebuilt, the technician put in simple Napa 30 weight oil. He was convinced it worked just fine.
>>
>> So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent. I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
> I think the ND is to eliminate foaming. I started with 30 weight
> Non-Detergent in mine, but switched on the second change to MT-90.
> Works a treat.
>
> Jeff Scarbrough
> Corrosion Acres, Ga.
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/frogeye@porterscustom.com
>
>
--
Porter Custom Bicycles 2902 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 505-352-1378 My World go here: WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/
---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:27:30 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>
To: "'TERRY SMITH'" <terryrs at comcast.net>, <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <A60C480C59B24E69803341780528D4CE at RYPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> Is the answer that, since John Esposito put it in, ...that
> NAPA 30 wt non-detergent is okay? ...Or should I just stay
> with Mt-90 as all recommend here and use the 3 quarts of NAPA
> 30 in the lawn mower?I Sorry to be so dense!!!!
We're talking opinions here. Mine is that MT-90 is much better than ND 30.
The OD doesn't care so much, it should work fine on either one, but the
MT-90 will make the main gearbox both perform better and last longer.
And it meets the manufacturer's requirements. ND 30 does not.
-- Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 21:38:51 -0500
From: "dave" <dave at ranteer.com>
To: <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] another one for the books
Message-ID: <000201d4083f$d417fa10$7c47ee30$@ranteer.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The pictures don?t tell any story of the engine. Beautiful paint but it?s a hot rod aesthetic on an old British sports car. Good luck with that. Lets just be thankful he didn?t do that to a TR
From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Paul Tegler
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 4:30 PM
To: CARS nass at yahoogroups.com <nass at yahoogroups.com>; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: [TR] another one for the books
another one for the books
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spitfire-1500/223008157307?hash=item33ec526e7b:g:A24AAOSwQb1bGHjV <https://www.ebay.com/itm/Spitfire-1500/223008157307?hash=item33ec526e7b:g:A24AAOSwQb1bGHjV&vxp=mtr> &vxp=mtr
No starter installed (no room...it's in the boot) fuel lines not even hooked up (underneath pics) didn't even uprate the front brakes (to GT6 at least)
looks like ultra short rear a-arms... (a Cougar XR7 rear suspension/diff?)...can't see what he did for rear shocks/springs
...man if he'd only have used the '93-94 vintage intake (lower slung 'V') it would have all fit under the bonnet without that ridiculous bonnet scope
Nice enough looking car but no for that asking price!!!!!
anyone want a very clean 50 mile post resto job spit! I'd go 11K obo 13 I'll throw in an o/d and hardtop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvs_dLi2nJE <https://youtu.be/kvs_dLi2nJE>
--
Paul Tegler
ptegler at verizon.net <mailto:ptegler at verizon.net> www.teglerizer.com <http://www.teglerizer.com>
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Message: 12
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:58:51 -0400
From: Jeff Scarbrough <fishplate at gmail.com>
To: "Triumphs (triumphs at autox.team.net)" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID:
<CAO8Q7CNXhhf+nP9N7t88VPEgmK5o+Qxh2PcDk-dCTFzFd7Qa5w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Randall <TR3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote:
.
>
> And it meets the manufacturer's requirements.
Especially since we can't get Universal Thuban 90 over here any more.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:08:00 +0000
From: "Reihing, Randall S." <Randall.Reihing at utoledo.edu>
To: "Triumphs (triumphs at autox.team.net)" <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID:
<5DF59F06A5E05E47A21C0E72057265D901BFA9AD92 at msgdb11.utad.utoledo.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is an interesting discussion regarding MT90 gear oil versus 30 wt. non-detergent oil in TR3 gearboxes.
My humble opinion is that I fully agree with Randall that using MT90 gear oil is the best option for the TR3 gearbox.
It's all about the oil film's resistance to pressure, or the maximum psi the oil film can withstand between rotating/sliding parts in close proximity to each other during periods of high loads. The maximum pressure the MT90 oil film can withstand before failure is somewhere around 500,000 psi. It's not likely that any metal-to-metal contact can occur in a TR3 gearbox that will generate forces sufficient to pinch off that MT90 oil film and allow metal-to-metal contact, a primary contributor to premature wear. Not so with 30 wt. oil whether it's non-detergent or not. The 30 wt. oil does not provide an oil film with equally high pressure protection from metal-to-metal contact that the MT90 oil film provides and while the 30 wt. oil may work in the short term, the gearbox will not have the life span of the same unit using the factory recommended 90 wt. gear oil.
The only downside I can see is that winter driving may require some time for the TR3's gearbox to warm up or shifting gears may take a little extra effort before the gearbox and it's oil warm up a little. But then, here in NW, Ohio, I never drive my TR3 in the winter. It's just not the same experience when it's 10-20F outside.
Randall Reihing
1959 TR3A
________________________________________
From: Triumphs [triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] on behalf of David P [frogeye at porterscustom.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:25 PM
To: Jeff Scarbrough; TERRY SMITH
Cc: Triumphs (triumphs at autox.team.net)
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Non detergent oils are formulated to allow particulates to settle out
and not be recirculated. DaveP
On 6/19/2018 11:59 AM, Jeff Scarbrough wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:34 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hello, everyone. Now I've got the OD sorted and working well consistently, I thought to turn attention to the OD oil. I'm running MT-90 now, mostly because it's the most highly recommended by you all and it was necessary to eliminate every possible variable that might have been contributing to the OD woes I was having.
>>
>> When the OD was rebuilt, the technician put in simple Napa 30 weight oil. He was convinced it worked just fine.
>>
>> So my question. I've forgotten whether it was non-detergent. I suspect so,since wouldn't that give it more grip????
> I think the ND is to eliminate foaming. I started with 30 weight
> Non-Detergent in mine, but switched on the second change to MT-90.
> Works a treat.
>
> Jeff Scarbrough
> Corrosion Acres, Ga.
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
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------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 12:14:59 +0000
From: "Reihing, Randall S." <Randall.Reihing at utoledo.edu>
To: Randall <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>, 'TERRY SMITH'
<terryrs at comcast.net>, "triumphs at autox.team.net"
<triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID:
<5DF59F06A5E05E47A21C0E72057265D901BFA9ADCE at msgdb11.utad.utoledo.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This is an interesting discussion regarding MT90 gear oil versus 30 wt. non-detergent oil in TR3 gearboxes.
My humble opinion is that I fully agree with Randall that using MT90 gear oil is the best option for the TR3 gearbox.
It's all about the oil film's resistance to pressure, or the maximum psi the oil film can withstand between rotating/sliding parts in close proximity to each other during periods of high loads. The maximum pressure the MT90 oil film can withstand before failure is somewhere around 500,000 psi. It's not likely that any metal-to-metal contact can occur in a TR3 gearbox that will generate forces sufficient to pinch off that MT90 oil film and allow metal-to-metal contact, a primary contributor to premature wear. Not so with 30 wt. oil whether it's non-detergent or not. The 30 wt. oil does not provide an oil film with equally high pressure protection from metal-to-metal contact that the MT90 oil film provides and while the 30 wt. oil may work in the short term, the gearbox will not have the life span of the same unit using the factory recommended 90 wt. gear oil.
The only downside I can see is that winter driving may require some time for the TR3's gearbox to warm up or shifting gears may take a little extra effort before the gearbox and it's oil warm up a little. But then, here in NW, Ohio, I never drive my TR3 in the winter. It's just not the same experience when it's 10-20F outside.
Randall Reihing
1959 TR3A
________________________________________
From: Triumphs [triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] on behalf of Randall [TR3driver at ca.rr.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 9:27 PM
To: 'TERRY SMITH'; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
> Is the answer that, since John Esposito put it in, ...that
> NAPA 30 wt non-detergent is okay? ...Or should I just stay
> with Mt-90 as all recommend here and use the 3 quarts of NAPA
> 30 in the lawn mower?I Sorry to be so dense!!!!
We're talking opinions here. Mine is that MT-90 is much better than ND 30.
The OD doesn't care so much, it should work fine on either one, but the
MT-90 will make the main gearbox both perform better and last longer.
And it meets the manufacturer's requirements. ND 30 does not.
-- Randall
56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:21:01 -0700
From: "Randall" <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>
To: "'Reihing, Randall S.'" <Randall.Reihing at utoledo.edu>, "'TERRY
SMITH'" <terryrs at comcast.net>, <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] OD Oil
Message-ID: <F8832026EAB549E2822A8A8F3B293922 at RYPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MT-90 is actually a 75W90 formulation, which is roughly the equivalent (in
viscosity) of 15W40 motor oil.
This means that, at cold temperatures, MT-90 is actually thinner than ND 30!
There is a neat on-line calculator at
http://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Graph.html
Where you can plug in the viscosity at 40C and 100C from the product data
sheet and graph the results at lower temperatures.
Plugging in the numbers from the MT-90 datasheet and Valvoline ND 30
produced the attached chart.
As you can (hopefully) see, the two curves cross at roughly 30C (86F). Even
at room temperature, the MT-90 is actually thinner than ND 30!
Of course, it almost never freezes where I live (near Los Angeles, CA), but
I can vouch that MT-90 does shift easily on cold mornings, even when the
overnight low was close to freezing.
-- Randall
> The only downside I can see is that winter driving may
> require some time for the TR3's gearbox to warm up or
> shifting gears may take a little extra effort before the
> gearbox and it's oil warm up a little.
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