[TR] TR 3 A REAR ENGINE SEAL

Mon Jun 18 19:18:51 MDT 2018

Great detail. Very much appreciated, Tony. 

Dean Mericas
Austin, TX
1965 TR4 / 1963 Jaguar Mk2 (for sale!) / 1974 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV / 1976
Alfa Romeo Giulia Nuova Super 2000

> On Jun 18, 2018, at 7:54 PM, Tony Drews <tony at tonydrews.com> wrote:
> 
> Speedi sleeve won't work as there's a flange on the TR-4 crank preventing installation.
> 
> The new seals have a bit of a shorter spring so provide a bit more tension.  You can also very carefully trim a very slight amount off of one end of the split portion.  However, I don't think that's necessary unless the crank is smaller OD than 2.500".  Drilling a couple of drain holes in the rear main helps too.  On my most recent engine build (I do one a year in the race car), the rear main is not leaking significantly and I didn't trim the seal but did ensure the spring was 8" long.  There's some discussion of this on my engine building tips page here (see #14 under Block and #1, 4 and 5 under Crank):
> 
> http://www.tonydrews.com/uncle_jacks_engine_building_tips.htm 
> Salient points are these:
> 
> Tony note: related to the lip seal tips on the crankshaft - if you drill two 3/8" or 10mm holes in the rear main cap parallel to the existing oil drain hole, the oil buildup between the rear main bearing and the rear main seal will be lessened and you'll have less chance of pushing oil out of the rear main seal.
> 
> 
> If you are going to install the aftermarket rear seal, have the seal surface of the crank turned to 2.525 – whatever the current instructions may say. These seals are leaky and they need all the help they can get. The lip tension is too low. Therefore, measure the length of the spring and alter it to be exactly 8”  long.
> 
> Put a very small amount of RTV along one edge of the seal groove in the aluminum housing. Also put a very light coat of liquid gasket sealer on the surfaces against which the seal housing will go.
> 
> Install the seal on the crank. Arrange the seal so the split will be on the upside / top after the engine is right side up.
> 
> Regards, Tony Drews
> 
>> On 6/18/2018 6:56 PM, Paul Tegler wrote:
>> ...couldn't you simply install a 'Speedi-Sleeve' ? (need to hunt down the proper size of course)
>> https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-ab&biw=1344&bih=867&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=r0QoW77-C8WK5wLep63ACg&q=speedi-sleeve&oq=speedi-sleeve&gs_l=img.3..0j0i30k1l3j0i24k1l5.185356.188186.0.188574.13.13.0.0.0.0.98.1012.13.13.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.13.1001...0i67k1j0i8i30k1.0.rlKHRLHMiao
>> 
>> I've had one on a GT6 crank for over 10 years and 20K miles now without a single drop.  
>> Once installed I polished the surface to a mirror finish to assist longevity of the normal rubber lip seal
>> 
>> ptegler
>> 
>>> On 6/18/2018 6:15 PM, Dean Mericas wrote:
>>> I had the misfortune of installing one of the lip-type seals that Randall recommends against in my TR4 back in the late 1990s.  I got the kit from either Moss or British Frame & Engine (Sp?) and it required machining the scroll off.  It never worked completely, and seems to be getting worse with age.  I'm planning to pull and reseal the engine sometime soon and am wondering if there's anything that can be done to reduce the leakage with an alternative seal or something other than obtaining a new crankshaft?
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Dean Mericas
>>> Austin, TX
>>> 1965 TR4 / 1963 Jaguar Mk2 (for sale!) / 1974 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV / 1976 Alfa Romeo Giulia Nuova Super 2000
>>> 
>>>> On 6/18/2018 1:00 PM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> Message: 2
>>>> Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2018 21:13:47 -0700
>>>> From: "Randall" <TR3driver at ca.rr.com>
>>>> To: "'Robin Watson'" <robinwmgb at gmail.com>,	<triumphs at autox.team.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [TR] TR 3 A REAR ENGINE SEAL
>>>> Message-ID: <635AFA26C07B4A8398E0946330508168 at RYPC>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, that's right.  When setting with the mandrel, use shellac on the faces
>>>> against the block and main cap.  Not on the scroll area.
>>>> 
>>>> Later, when doing the final assembly with the crankshaft in place, it
>>>> wouldn't hurt to paint a little shellac on the seal faces where they meet.
>>>> 
>>>> Two other points:
>>>> 1) There appears to be an error in the mandrel dimensions given in the
>>>> workshop manual.  See attached diagram.
>>>> 
>>>> 2) There is an updated "Viton" seal available, that still uses the scroll
>>>> but adds a lip type seal.  Highly recommended.  Invented by a German TR4
>>>> racer who was upset about being black flagged when his TR4 "marked it's
>>>> spot".
>>>> http://www.tr4-racing.de/eng/madmarx-racing.html
>>>> 
>>>> IMO, you should stay away from the other lip type seal offered by some other
>>>> vendors, as it requires the scroll part of the crankshaft to be machined
>>>> away.
>>>> 
>>>> -- Randall 
>>>> 56 TR3 TS13571L once and future daily driver
>>>> 71 Stag LE1473 - awaiting engine rebuild
>>>> 71-2-3 Stag - awaiting gearbox rebuild 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> "Thousands and thousands have lived without love - 
>>> not one without water." - Katharine Hayhoe, Ph.D.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>> 
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>> 
>> -- 
>> Paul Tegler
>> ptegler at verizon.net  www.teglerizer.com
>> 
>> 
>> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>> 
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> 
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