[Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept
Charles Robinson
ccrobins at ktc.com
Wed Apr 7 00:42:18 MDT 2021
I own a 2007 Prius, it has just over 63K miles on it. It has two
batteries. One is a flooded lead acid, used for the same thing any car
uses its 12 volt battery for. The other (motor) battery is not lithium,
it's NiCd, commonly called nicad. It shares with the engine in moving
the car. Newer Prius use NiMH motor batteries up until 2015. IN 2015
and later Prius have NiMH or lithium ion, depending on model. The
motor battery in my Prius is still under warranty because it was a
"Toyota Certified" used car, bought from a Toyota dealer with less than
10K miles on the clock.
That motor battery is under the rear passenger seat and is encapsulated
in a housing. The gas tank is larger in volume.
Now, my Prius is not an EV, it's a hybrid gas/electric vehicle. It runs
on gasoline, uses the motor battery as an aid to movement when needed.
When I back out of my driveway it's an electric car. When I take off
down the street the engine kicks on as needed. OOPS, not quite true.
When I start my Prius from dead cold, the engine will start and run
until the catalytic converter warms up, then the engine shuts down until
needed to move the car. When the engine is not running it's an EV but it
recharges itself.
When running down the road my Prius is a 1.5 liter, 4 cylinder, gas
car. Stand on the throttle and it's a 3 liter V6 when the electric
motor kicks in, which is instantaneous. It's a great, comfortable road
car with fine freeway performance.
But, it's not an MGB.
CR
On 4/6/2021 2:32 PM, Paul Root wrote:
> That said, I don't have an electric car. I've never spent near
> enough on a car to get one.
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:30 PM Paul Root <ptroot at gmail.com
> <mailto:ptroot at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year.
> He's done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of
> course, has done youtube videos for them. Worth a look.
>
> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first
> hit on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <noblepa at hotmail.com
> <mailto:noblepa at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and
> hybrid cars.
>
> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally
> problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it.
>
> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most
> economical, safest and densest way to transport energy. In
> most cases, a tank of gasoline will take a car farther than a
> fully charged battery will.
>
> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and
> a lot heavier.
>
> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard
> that you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries.
> Replacing them costs about $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't
> even consider a used Prius, unless the seller showed me
> receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or
> Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a
> conventional car without an engine. It might be a good deal,
> but you have to factor in the cost of replacing the batteries
> or engine.
>
> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a
> couple of hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of
> batteries on a fully electric vehicle. That makes long trips a
> problem, if you have to stop every four hours for a two hour
> recharge. They could probably speed up the charging process
> but that would require much higher voltages or current flow,
> both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation
> problems.
>
> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when
> trying to cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and
> accidentally cut through the main battery cable. I know that
> first responders have been trained for this now, but this
> remains a problem.
>
> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging
> stations. No one wants to spend a lot of money installing
> public charging stations until there are a lot of EVs to use
> them. Conversely, many buyers are reluctant to buy an EV
> because there are not many public charging stations. That is
> why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill
> now being debated in Congress includes funding to build
> charging stations.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB
> <mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com <mailto:mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM
> *To:* James Dillner <spr1ng19 at outlook.com
> <mailto:spr1ng19 at outlook.com>>; Dan DiBiase
> <dan.dibiase at gmail.com <mailto:dan.dibiase at gmail.com>>
> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73 at gmail.com
> <mailto:paulbhunt73 at gmail.com>>; mglist <mgs at autox.team.net
> <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>>; MG-MGA-MGB
> <mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com <mailto:mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com>>
> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New
> MG Sports Car Concept
> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument
> but feel I am missing something.
>
> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S.
> Turns out same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both. Pretty
> similar.
>
> Presuming the cars mission is the same. Build quality
> similar, tire usage and performance in real world use
> equivalent I did some comparisons. Stupid fast Tesla
> acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per tank
> range. My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.
>
> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got
> this from Tesla) would run $8,800.
>
> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 -
> $65 oil changes the total is about $8,500.
>
> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.
>
> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000
> dollars ahead. I am negating resale. A 100,000 Mazda6 is
> nicely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life
> expectancy. I just do not know.
>
> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000
> miles would be nearly impossible.
>
> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and
> charging non-existent. One hotel out of 13 had charging
> stations. Rapid charging hurts battery life. Standing around
> for a half hour a couple of times a day could get old.
>
> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what
> will win.
>
> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a
> system much like an automated car wash, and come back in 5
> minutes with a fresh battery. Changed from below.
>
> Automatically changed. SUVs might have two batteries.
> Trucks might have more.
>
> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed
> packs would report to your car your assigned swap spot so A:
> you knew you would have a battery ready and B: that there was
> no need to squeeze every last drop out of yours. You'd pay a
> charge to belong to the system and what your battery had left.
> So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just
> swap the half used battery.
>
> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the
> same model to be built in order as the robots don't care.
>
> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough
> spigots is tough to see until many years from now.
>
> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent
> a car for trips, but the current model works for me.
>
> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:
>
> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the
> Centuries
> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the
> Centuries
>
> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's
> automotive pioneer can outrun its predecessor.
>
> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses
> pcresch at yahoo.com <mailto:pcresch at yahoo.com>
> resch at reschonline.com <mailto:resch at reschonline.com>
>
>
> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase
> <dan.dibiase at gmail.com <mailto:dan.dibiase at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into
> about 15 modules that make up the battery pack in the Model
> 3/Y (77kWh battery).
>
> Dan D
> Central NJ USA
> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
> <http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner
> <spr1ng19 at outlook.com <mailto:spr1ng19 at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures
> of the Tesla wreck where the battery pack tore apart?
> There were thousands of little sub-c
> cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place.
> Somehow I never dreamed that those power packs were made
> up of cells all linked together.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com
> <mailto:mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com>
> <mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com
> <mailto:mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com>> on behalf of
> PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73 at gmail.com
> <mailto:paulbhunt73 at gmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM
> *Cc:* mglist <mgs at autox.team.net
> <mailto:mgs at autox.team.net>>; MG-MGA-MGB
> <MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com
> <mailto:MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com>>
> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept
> Each to their own. I can't see myself ever buying an EV
> based on the current range and recharging situation where
> they are little more than toys for local journeys. If I
> get to the point when I'm still around and driving but run
> out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall
> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before.
> PaulH.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern
> set-up.... ;-) Based on my first month with my Tesla
> Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything with an
> electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan
> to buy another internal combustion vehicle for my
> daily use.
>
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