[Mgs] Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: New MG Sports Car Concept

Paul Root ptroot at gmail.com
Tue Apr 6 13:32:23 MDT 2021


That said, I don't have an electric car. I've never spent near enough on a
car to get one.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:30 PM Paul Root <ptroot at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a Telsa Model 3 last year. He's
> done 2 2500 mile road trips, summer, and winter. And, of course, has done
> youtube videos for them. Worth a look.
>
> I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles. The first hit on a
> google search says 100-150k and/or 8 years.
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:19 PM Paul Noble <noblepa at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I've wondered about the same things, regarding electric and hybrid cars.
>>
>> Another thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally problematic,
>> both in mining it and disposing of it.
>>
>> The problem is that gasoline is still one of the most economical, safest
>> and densest way to transport energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will
>> take a car farther than a fully charged battery will.
>>
>> The battery pack is usually much larger than the gas tank, and a lot
>> heavier.
>>
>> I've never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've heard that you're
>> lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set of batteries. Replacing them costs about
>> $3-4k. That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used Prius, unless the
>> seller showed me receipts for a very recent battery replacement. A Prius
>> (or Tesla for that matter) without batteries is like a conventional car
>> without an engine. It might be a good deal, but you have to factor in the
>> cost of replacing the batteries or engine.
>>
>> Current (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a couple of
>> hours, at least, to recharge a fully depleted set of batteries on a fully
>> electric vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you have to stop
>> every four hours for a two hour recharge. They could probably speed up the
>> charging process but that would require much higher voltages or current
>> flow, both of which can be dangerous and create heat dissipation problems.
>>
>> I've heard stories that rescue workers have been injured when trying to
>> cut someone out of a crashed hybrid vehicle and accidentally cut through
>> the main battery cable. I know that first responders have been trained for
>> this now, but this remains a problem.
>>
>> Of course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public charging stations.
>> No one wants to spend a lot of money installing public charging stations
>> until there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many buyers are
>> reluctant to buy an EV because there are not many public charging stations.
>> That is why one of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill now
>> being debated in Congress includes funding to build charging stations.
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* 'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM
>> *To:* James Dillner <spr1ng19 at outlook.com>; Dan DiBiase <
>> dan.dibiase at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73 at gmail.com>; mglist <mgs at autox.team.net>;
>> MG-MGA-MGB <mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Off topic. Your mileage may vary. WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports
>> Car Concept
>>
>> I am just looking to have a discussion, not an angry argument but feel I
>> am missing something.
>>
>> When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out
>> same guy Franz von Holzhausen designed both.  Pretty similar.
>>
>> Presuming the cars mission is the same.  Build quality similar, tire
>> usage and performance in real world use equivalent I did some comparisons.
>> Stupid fast Tesla acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600 mile per
>> tank range.   My bladder needs stops more frequently than 9 hours.
>>
>> In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from
>> Tesla) would run $8,800.
>>
>> In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35 miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil
>> changes the total is about $8,500.
>>
>> But the Tesla costs over $70,000 and the Mazda6 half that.
>>
>> Even if recharging at home was free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars
>> ahead.  I am negating resale.  A 100,000 Mazda6 is nicely broken in..
>> What's the $16.000 Tesla's battery life expectancy.  I just do not know.
>>
>> And a trip such as I just took to Montana last October, 5,000 miles would
>> be nearly impossible.
>>
>> I was in areas where gas stations were few and far between and charging
>> non-existent.  One hotel out of 13 had charging stations.  Rapid charging
>> hurts battery life.  Standing around for a half hour a couple of times a
>> day could get old.
>>
>> I think the European model of changeable battery packs is what will win.
>>
>> Design a platform where you pull in, drop the vehicle into a system much
>> like an automated car wash, and come back in 5 minutes with a fresh
>> battery.  Changed from below.
>>
>> Automatically changed.  SUVs might  have two batteries.  Trucks might
>> have more.
>>
>> Your state of charge, car's pathway and prediction of needed packs would
>> report to your car your assigned swap spot so A: you knew you would have a
>> battery ready and B: that there was no need to squeeze every last drop out
>> of yours.  You'd pay a charge to belong to the system and what your battery
>> had left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours for a rest break, just
>> swap the half used battery.
>>
>> I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW factory it is rare for the same model to
>> be built in order as the robots don't care.
>>
>> The infrastructure of charging stations and having enough spigots is
>> tough to see until many years from now.
>>
>> So please, I take trips, not a lot and yes, I could just rent a car for
>> trips, but the current model works for me.
>>
>> A fun read on this topic, tongue firmly in cheek is:
>>
>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
>> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>>
>> 1915 Ford Model T vs. 2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries
>>
>> We stage a multi-state enduro to find out if today's automotive pioneer
>> can outrun its predecessor.
>>
>> <https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266 email addresses pcresch at yahoo.com
>> resch at reschonline.com
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT, Dan DiBiase <
>> dan.dibiase at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yes, there are 7000-something individual cells bundled into about 15
>> modules that make up the battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh battery).
>>
>> Dan D
>> Central NJ USA
>> http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:07 PM James Dillner <spr1ng19 at outlook.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is a bit off topic, but did anyone see the pictures of the Tesla
>> wreck where the battery pack tore apart?  There were thousands of little
>> sub-c cells.....batteries.....scattered all over the place.  Somehow I
>> never dreamed that those power packs were made up of cells all linked
>> together.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com <mg-mga-mgb at googlegroups.com> on
>> behalf of PaulBHunt73 <paulbhunt73 at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 6, 2021 11:40 AM
>> *Cc:* mglist <mgs at autox.team.net>; MG-MGA-MGB <
>> MG-MGA-MGB at googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept
>>
>> Each to their own.  I can't see myself ever buying an EV based on the
>> current range and recharging situation where they are little more than toys
>> for local journeys.  If I get to the point when I'm still around and
>> driving but run out of satisfactory used 'real' cars to buy then I shall
>> revert to using my V8 as a daily driver as I did before.
>>
>> PaulH.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> Hans - one could argue that this concept IS a modern set-up.... ;-) Based
>> on my first month with my Tesla Model Y, I'd absolutely consider anything
>> with an electric drivetrain from this point on. I don't plan to buy another
>> internal combustion vehicle for my daily use.
>>
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>
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