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    <p>I own a 2007 Prius, it has just over 63K miles on it. It has two
      batteries.  One is a flooded lead acid,  used for the same thing
      any car uses its 12 volt battery for. The other (motor) battery is
      not lithium, it's NiCd, commonly called nicad.  It shares with the
      engine in moving the car.  Newer Prius use NiMH motor  batteries
      up until 2015.  IN 2015 and later  Prius have NiMH or lithium ion,
      depending on model.  The motor battery in my Prius is still under
      warranty because it was a "Toyota Certified" used car, bought from
      a Toyota dealer with less than 10K miles on the clock.</p>
    <p>That motor battery is under the rear passenger seat and is
      encapsulated in a housing.  The gas tank is larger in volume.</p>
    <p>Now, my Prius is not an EV, it's a hybrid gas/electric vehicle. 
      It runs on gasoline, uses the motor battery as an aid to movement
      when needed.  When I back out of my driveway it's an electric
      car.  When I take off down the street the engine kicks on as
      needed.  OOPS, not quite true.  When I start my Prius from dead
      cold, the engine will start and run until the catalytic converter
      warms up, then the engine shuts down until needed to move the car.
      When the engine is not running it's an EV but it recharges
      itself.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>When running down the road my Prius is a 1.5 liter, 4 cylinder,
      gas car.  Stand on the throttle and it's a 3 liter V6 when the
      electric motor kicks in, which is instantaneous.  It's a great,
      comfortable road car with fine freeway performance.  <br>
    </p>
    <p>But, it's not an MGB.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>CR<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/6/2021 2:32 PM, Paul Root wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAPxc_gGTtfnsdinMjPX1mFs13MZz3SjVcrMAJfK4q-9Sq_ZZSA@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="ltr">That said, I don't have an electric car. I've never
        spent near enough on a car to get one. </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:30 PM
          Paul Root <<a href="mailto:ptroot@gmail.com"
            moz-do-not-send="true">ptroot@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
          0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">Jason of Engineering Explained, bought a
            Telsa Model 3 last year. He's done 2 2500 mile road trips,
            summer, and winter. And, of course, has done youtube videos
            for them. Worth a look. 
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div>I hadn't heard that the batteries only last 50k miles.
              The first hit on a google search says 100-150k and/or 8
              years.</div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at
              2:19 PM Paul Noble <<a
                href="mailto:noblepa@hotmail.com" target="_blank"
                moz-do-not-send="true">noblepa@hotmail.com</a>>
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
              0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
              rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span>I've
                    wondered about the same things, regarding electric
                    and hybrid cars.</span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span><br>
                  </span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span>Another
                    thing to consider is that lithium is environmentally
                    problematic, both in mining it and disposing of it.</span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span><br>
                  </span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span>The
                    problem is that gasoline is still one of the most
                    economical, safest and densest way to transport
                    energy. In most cases, a tank of gasoline will take
                    a car farther than a fully charged battery will.</span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span><br>
                  </span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span>The
                    battery pack is usually much larger than the gas
                    tank, and a lot heavier.</span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span><br>
                  </span></div>
                <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><span>I've
                    never owned a Prius or any other hybrid, but I've
                    heard that you're lucky to get 50,000 miles on a set
                    of batteries. Replacing them costs about $3-4k.
                    That's one reason I wouldn't even consider a used
                    Prius, unless the seller showed me receipts for a
                    very recent battery replacement. A Prius (or Tesla
                    for that matter) without batteries is like a
                    conventional car without an engine. It might be a
                    good deal, but you have to factor in the cost of
                    replacing the batteries or engine.</span></div>
                <div>
                  <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Current
                    (no pun intended) technology requires, I believe, a
                    couple of hours, at least, to recharge a fully
                    depleted set of batteries on a fully electric
                    vehicle. That makes long trips a problem, if you
                    have to stop every four hours for a two hour
                    recharge. They could probably speed up the charging
                    process but that would require much higher voltages
                    or current flow, both of which can be dangerous and
                    create heat dissipation problems.</div>
                  <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">I've
                    heard stories that rescue workers have been injured
                    when trying to cut someone out of a crashed hybrid
                    vehicle and accidentally cut through the main
                    battery cable. I know that first responders have
                    been trained for this now, but this remains a
                    problem.</div>
                  <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><br>
                  </div>
                  <div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">Of
                    course, there is a chicken/egg problem with public
                    charging stations. No one wants to spend a lot of
                    money installing public charging stations until
                    there are a lot of EVs to use them. Conversely, many
                    buyers are reluctant to buy an EV because there are
                    not many public charging stations. That is why one
                    of the features of the proposed infrastructure bill
                    now being debated in Congress includes funding to
                    build charging stations.</div>
                  <hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
                  <div
id="gmail-m_-5096601306626444364gmail-m_-6992287651865967615divRplyFwdMsg"
                    dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
                      face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
                      'Paul C Resch' via MG-MGA-MGB <<a
                        href="mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
                      <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 6, 2021 2:49 PM<br>
                      <b>To:</b> James Dillner <<a
                        href="mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>>;
                      Dan DiBiase <<a
                        href="mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>><br>
                      <b>Cc:</b> PaulBHunt73 <<a
                        href="mailto:paulbhunt73@gmail.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">paulbhunt73@gmail.com</a>>;
                      mglist <<a href="mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>;
                      MG-MGA-MGB <<a
                        href="mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"
                        target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>><br>
                      <b>Subject:</b> Off topic. Your mileage may vary.
                      WAS Re: [Mgs] New MG Sports Car Concept</font>
                    <div> </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div style="font-family:"times new
                      roman","new
                      york",times,serif;font-size:16px">
                      <div>
                        <div dir="ltr">I am just looking to have a
                          discussion, not an angry argument but feel I
                          am missing something.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">When I had a Mazda6 I noticed the
                          similarity to the Tesla S. Turns out same guy
                          Franz von Holzhausen designed both.  Pretty
                          similar.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">Presuming the cars mission is the
                          same.  Build quality similar, tire usage and
                          performance in real world use equivalent I did
                          some comparisons.  Stupid fast Tesla
                          acceleration is as useless as the Masda6's 600
                          mile per tank range.   My bladder needs stops
                          more frequently than 9 hours.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">In 100,000 miles Tesla recharges
                          ($22.00 for 250 miles, I got this from Tesla)
                          would run $8,800.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">In 100.00 at $2.75 a gallon, 35
                          miles per US Gallon and 10 - $65 oil changes
                          the total is about $8,500.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">But the Tesla costs over $70,000
                          and the Mazda6 half that.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">Even if recharging at home was
                          free, in 100,000 I am $25,000 dollars ahead. 
                          I am negating resale.  A 100,000 Mazda6 is
                          nicely broken in.. What's the $16.000 Tesla's
                          battery life expectancy.  I just do not know.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">And a trip such as I just took to
                          Montana last October, 5,000 miles would be
                          nearly impossible.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">I was in areas where gas stations
                          were few and far between and charging
                          non-existent.  One hotel out of 13 had
                          charging stations.  Rapid charging hurts
                          battery life.  Standing around for a half hour
                          a couple of times a day could get old.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">I think the European model of
                          changeable battery packs is what will win.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">Design a platform where you pull
                          in, drop the vehicle into a system much like
                          an automated car wash, and come back in 5
                          minutes with a fresh battery.  Changed from
                          below.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">Automatically changed.  SUVs
                          might  have two batteries.  Trucks might have
                          more.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">Your state of charge, car's
                          pathway and prediction of needed packs would
                          report to your car your assigned swap spot so
                          A: you knew you would have a battery ready and
                          B: that there was no need to squeeze every
                          last drop out of yours.  You'd pay a charge to
                          belong to the system and what your battery had
                          left. So if you wanted to stop every 2 hours
                          for a rest break, just swap the half used
                          battery.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">I learned that in Wolfsburg's VW
                          factory it is rare for the same model to be
                          built in order as the robots don't care.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">The infrastructure of charging
                          stations and having enough spigots is tough to
                          see until many years from now.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">So please, I take trips, not a
                          lot and yes, I could just rent a car for
                          trips, but the current model works for me.</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr">A fun read on this topic, tongue
                          firmly in cheek is:</div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><a
href="https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/"
                            rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">1915 Ford Model T vs.
                            2013 Tesla Model S: Race of the Centuries</a><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div
id="gmail-m_-5096601306626444364gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydpf9e5fe71enhancr_card_8017187199"
style="max-width:400px;font-family:YahooSans,"Helvetica
                          Neue","Segoe
                          UI",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif">
                          <a
                            style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(0,0,0)"
href="https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15112705/2013-tesla-model-s-vs-1915-ford-model-t-race-of-the-centuries-feature/"
                            rel="nofollow" target="_blank"
                            moz-do-not-send="true">
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                                                    <h2
                                                      style="font-size:14px;line-height:19px;margin:0px
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Neue","Segoe
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                                                      1915 Ford Model T
                                                      vs. 2013 Tesla
                                                      Model S: Race of
                                                      the Centuries</h2>
                                                    <p
style="font-size:12px;line-height:16px;margin:0px;color:rgb(151,155,167)">We
                                                      stage a
                                                      multi-state enduro
                                                      to find out if
                                                      today's automotive
                                                      pioneer can outrun
                                                      its predecessor.</p>
                                                  </td>
                                                </tr>
                                              </tbody>
                                            </table>
                                          </td>
                                        </tr>
                                      </tbody>
                                    </table>
                                  </td>
                                </tr>
                              </tbody>
                            </table>
                          </a></div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div dir="ltr"><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>Paul Resch USA Cell phone 661-645-5266
                          email addresses <a
                            href="mailto:pcresch@yahoo.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">pcresch@yahoo.com</a>
                          <a href="mailto:resch@reschonline.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">resch@reschonline.com</a></div>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                      <div><br>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                    <div
id="gmail-m_-5096601306626444364gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayahoo_quoted_8717513317">
                      <div style="font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:rgb(38,40,42)">
                        <div>On Tuesday, April 6, 2021, 12:47:33 PM CDT,
                          Dan DiBiase <<a
                            href="mailto:dan.dibiase@gmail.com"
                            target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dan.dibiase@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div><br>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div
id="gmail-m_-5096601306626444364gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Yes, there are
                                7000-something individual cells bundled
                                into about 15 modules that make up the
                                battery pack in the Model 3/Y (77kWh
                                battery).
                                <div><br clear="none">
                                </div>
                                <div>Dan D</div>
                                <div>Central NJ USA<br clear="all">
                                  <div>
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div dir="ltr"><a
                                          href="http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/"
                                          rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                          target="_blank"
                                          moz-do-not-send="true">http://dandibiase.cbintouch.com/</a></div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                  <br clear="none">
                                </div>
                              </div>
                              <br clear="none">
                              <div
id="gmail-m_-5096601306626444364gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387yqt18265">
                                <div>
                                  <div dir="ltr">On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at
                                    12:07 PM James Dillner <<a
                                      href="mailto:spr1ng19@outlook.com"
                                      rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">spr1ng19@outlook.com</a>>
                                    wrote:<br clear="none">
                                  </div>
                                  <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px
                                    0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
                                    rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)">This
                                        is a bit off topic, but did
                                        anyone see the pictures of the
                                        Tesla wreck where the battery
                                        pack tore apart?  There were
                                        thousands of little sub-c
                                        cells.....batteries.....scattered
                                        all over the place.  Somehow I
                                        never dreamed that those power
                                        packs were made up of cells all
                                        linked together. <br
                                          clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div>
                                        <div
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                        <hr
                                          style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
                                        <div
id="gmail-m_-5096601306626444364gmail-m_-6992287651865967615x_ydp7f46dc1ayiv7836723387gmail-m_1494527823292593023divRplyFwdMsg"
                                          dir="ltr">
                                          <font style="font-size:11pt"
                                            face="Calibri, sans-serif"
                                            color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
                                            <a
                                              href="mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"
                                              rel="nofollow"
                                              shape="rect"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">
mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a> <<a
                                              href="mailto:mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com"
                                              rel="nofollow"
                                              shape="rect"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">mg-mga-mgb@googlegroups.com</a>>
                                            on behalf of PaulBHunt73
                                            <<a
                                              href="mailto:paulbhunt73@gmail.com"
                                              rel="nofollow"
                                              shape="rect"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">paulbhunt73@gmail.com</a>><br
                                              clear="none">
                                            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April
                                            6, 2021 11:40 AM<br
                                              clear="none">
                                            <b>Cc:</b> mglist <<a
                                              href="mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"
                                              rel="nofollow"
                                              shape="rect"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">mgs@autox.team.net</a>>;
                                            MG-MGA-MGB <<a
                                              href="mailto:MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com"
                                              rel="nofollow"
                                              shape="rect"
                                              target="_blank"
                                              moz-do-not-send="true">MG-MGA-MGB@googlegroups.com</a>><br
                                              clear="none">
                                            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs]
                                            New MG Sports Car Concept</font>
                                          <div> </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <div
                                          style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
                                          <div><font size="2">Each to
                                              their own.  I can't see
                                              myself ever buying an EV
                                              based on the current range
                                              and recharging situation
                                              where they are little more
                                              than toys for local
                                              journeys.  I</font><font
                                              size="2">f I get to the
                                              point when I'm still
                                              around and driving but run
                                              out of satisfactory
                                              used 'real' cars to buy
                                              then I shall revert to
                                              using my V8 as a daily
                                              driver as I did before.</font></div>
                                          <div> </div>
                                          <div><font size="2">PaulH.</font></div>
                                          <blockquote
                                            style="border-left:2px solid
rgb(0,0,0);padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px;margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px">
                                            <div
style="font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:10pt;line-height:normal;font-family:arial">-----
                                              Original Message ----- </div>
                                            <div> </div>
                                            <div dir="ltr">
                                              <div>Hans - one could
                                                argue that this concept
                                                IS a modern set-up....
                                                ;-) Based on my first
                                                month with my Tesla
                                                Model Y, I'd absolutely
                                                consider anything with
                                                an electric drivetrain
                                                from this point on. I
                                                don't plan to buy
                                                another internal
                                                combustion vehicle for
                                                my daily use.</div>
                                            </div>
                                          </blockquote>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net">Mgs@autox.team.net</a>
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