[Mgs] . Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or Points (Robert J. Guinness)

Thu Jan 11 09:15:31 MST 2018

Robert
The aftermarket distributors are prone to quality control issues and I would avoid them if possible.  I would recommend sending your original distributor to Advanced and having it rebuilt and install a Petronix module instead of the points.  (Petronix verses points, always a difference of opinion) Keep a new set of points, rotor and condensor in the car in case the Petronix fails.  It has not happened to me but best to be prepared - this will at least get you going again.
I am  the original owner of a 1973 MGB with over 223,000 miles on the car.  The next thing we did was send the HIF4 carbs to Mr. Johnson in OK and had them rebuilt with new throttle shafts - they were leaking.  Spray some carb cleaner on the throttle shafts while the car is running.  If RPM's change - shafts are leaking.  New coil, spark plugs and plug wires and you should be all set.

With these changes, the car starts on the first turn of key, runs and idles excellent.  About 8,000 miles since the above changes were made.  I wish we had done this years ago - made a big difference for around $500 total.

Best of luck.
Joel Martin

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Today's Topics:

  1. H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (Charley & Peggy Robinson)Re: 
  2. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (Robert J. Guinness)
  3. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition
      (Eric Russell)
  4. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (John DiFede)
  5. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (Osborne, Paul)
  6. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition
      (Andrew Lundgren)
  7. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (PaulHunt73)
  8. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (Robert J. Guinness)
  9. Re: H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition or
      Points (Charley & Peggy Robinson)
  How well does the engine run?  If it runs well I wouldn't mess with it.

 CR

 On 1/9/2018 10:52 AM, Robert J. Guinness via Mgs wrote:

 I bought an MGA 1600 with HS4 carbs conversion and a crane fireball electronic ignition.  I would like to go back to a stock set up.  What are the significant pros and cons for doing so, for example power (rather than ease of maintenance)?  I know the H4s, but I am unfamiliar with working with HS4s (same with points vs electronic ignition).
  -- 

e-mail signature<!--#yiv2012100914 _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"CaslonOpnface BT";panose-1:4 2 6 5 8 3 3 3 2 3;}#yiv2012100914 #yiv2012100914 p.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 li.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv2012100914 .yiv2012100914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914WordSection1 {}--> Robert Guinness   

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   It ran great for @400 miles on a run from Raleigh, NC to just North of Caryville, TN in the New Years Eve subzero weather, then quit.  Would fade and then rev back up (until it didn't anymore).  Probably a combination of fuel pump, bad fuel, coil, and voltage regulator issues. Man was it cold on that mountain waiting for AAA!

 On 1/9/2018 2:40 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote:

 How well does the engine run?  If it runs well I wouldn't mess with it.

 CR

 On 1/9/2018 10:52 AM, Robert J. Guinness via Mgs wrote:

 I bought an MGA 1600 with HS4 carbs conversion and a crane fireball electronic ignition.  I would like to go back to a stock set up.  What are the significant pros and cons for doing so, for example power (rather than ease of maintenance)?  I know the H4s, but I am unfamiliar with working with HS4s (same with points vs electronic ignition).
  -- 

e-mail signature<!--#yiv2012100914 _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"CaslonOpnface BT";panose-1:4 2 6 5 8 3 3 3 2 3;}#yiv2012100914 #yiv2012100914 p.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 li.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv2012100914 .yiv2012100914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914WordSection1 {}--> Robert Guinness   

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 -- 
 e-mail signature<!--#yiv2012100914 _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"CaslonOpnface BT";panose-1:4 2 6 5 8 3 3 3 2 3;}#yiv2012100914 #yiv2012100914 p.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 li.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv2012100914 .yiv2012100914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914WordSection1 {}--> Robert Guinness   I can't imagine any significant power difference between H4 & HS4 carbs. 
The throats are the same. I suspect the HS4 carbs will be a little less 
leak-prone. (the rubber grommets on the H4 float bowl tend to be a weak 
point, IME) I don't think HS4's came with the decel valve in the 
throttle plate - if they did that could be a small difference in power.

I am not a fan of replacement electronic ignition systems. When they 
work they work just fine. But when they don't work, replacement of the 
entire unit seems like the only option. With points, an occasional 
tune-up keeps it working fine. And if something does go wrong when 
you're on the road, a tiny kit with spare points & condensor is almost 
surely all you'd need to get going again.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC
> Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 10:52:13 -0600
> From: "Robert J. Guinness" <guinness at stclegal.com>
> To: mgs at autox.team.net
> Subject: [Mgs] H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition
>
> I bought an MGA 1600 with HS4 carbs conversion and a crane fireball
> electronic ignition.? I would like to go back to a stock set up.? What
> are the *significant* pros and cons for doing so, for example power
> (rather than ease of maintenance)?? I know the H4s, but I am unfamiliar
> with working with HS4s (same with points vs electronic ignition).
>

If you decide to go with an electronic ignition get a pertronix unit.  I have used both , the crane set up with its brackets and screws and shutter wheel is difficult to set up correctly and can loosen up and fail.  The benefit of electronic ignition is not having to set up the points at tune up time.  Keep a set of points and condenser in the glove box in the event the electronic system fails 

Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 9, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Robert J. Guinness via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

 I bought an MGA 1600 with HS4 carbs conversion and a crane fireball electronic ignition.  I would like to go back to a stock set up.  What are the significant pros and cons for doing so, for example power (rather than ease of maintenance)?  I know the H4s, but I am unfamiliar with working with HS4s (same with points vs electronic ignition).
  -- 

e-mail signature<!--#yiv2012100914 _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"CaslonOpnface BT";panose-1:4 2 6 5 8 3 3 3 2 3;}#yiv2012100914 #yiv2012100914 p.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 li.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv2012100914 .yiv2012100914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914WordSection1 {}--> Robert Guinness   
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 I assume that your back home.  First I would work on why it stopped running. Getting back running reliable before I would do anything. 
paul

Paul Osborne
Department of Electrical and Computer Eng.
University of Rochester 
201 Hopeman Building RC
Rochester NY 14627
585-275-5226

On Jan 9, 2018, at 3:59 PM, Robert J. Guinness via Mgs <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

It ran great for @400 miles on a run from Raleigh, NC to just North of Caryville, TN in the New Years Eve subzero weather, then quit.  Would fade and then rev back up (until it didn't anymore).  Probably a combination of fuel pump, bad fuel, coil, and voltage regulator issues. Man was it cold on that mountain waiting for AAA!

On 1/9/2018 2:40 PM, Charley & Peggy Robinson wrote:

How well does the engine run?  If it runs well I wouldn't mess with it.

CR

On 1/9/2018 10:52 AM, Robert J. Guinness via Mgs wrote:

I bought an MGA 1600 with HS4 carbs conversion and a crane fireball electronic ignition.  I would like to go back to a stock set up.  What are thesignificant pros and cons for doing so, for example power (rather than ease of maintenance)?  I know the H4s, but I am unfamiliar with working with HS4s (same with points vs electronic ignition).
-- 

e-mail signature<!--#yiv2012100914 _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"CaslonOpnface BT";panose-1:4 2 6 5 8 3 3 3 2 3;}#yiv2012100914 #yiv2012100914 p.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 li.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv2012100914 .yiv2012100914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914WordSection1 {}-->Robert Guinness 

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-- 
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If it were me, I'd put a set of points in the tool box in case the electronics fail and not worry about the carbs. 
But my cars need me to spend money and time on things that are broken, and I'm not that much of a purist. I go original generally but it doesn't need to be the same year if something else works out. But my cars will never be concourse. 
I've got a 70 B with electric ignition and non original engine, and a 78 with SUs, that has been converted to chrome and lowered. 
Andrew
On Jan 9, 2018 6:32 PM, "Eric Russell via Mgs" <mgs at autox.team.net> wrote:

I can't imagine any significant power difference between H4 & HS4 carbs. The throats are the same. I suspect the HS4 carbs will be a little less leak-prone. (the rubber grommets on the H4 float bowl tend to be a weak point, IME) I don't think HS4's came with the decel valve in the throttle plate - if they did that could be a small difference in power.

I am not a fan of replacement electronic ignition systems. When they work they work just fine. But when they don't work, replacement of the entire unit seems like the only option. With points, an occasional tune-up keeps it working fine. And if something does go wrong when you're on the road, a tiny kit with spare points & condensor is almost surely all you'd need to get going again.

Eric Russell
Mebane, NC

Date: Tue, 9 Jan 2018 10:52:13 -0600
From: "Robert J. Guinness" <guinness at stclegal.com>
To: mgs at autox.team.net
Subject: [Mgs] H4 or HS4 carbs on an MGA 1600 and Electronic Ignition

I bought an MGA 1600 with HS4 carbs conversion and a crane fireball
electronic ignition.? I would like to go back to a stock set up.? What
are the *significant* pros and cons for doing so, for example power
(rather than ease of maintenance)?? I know the H4s, but I am unfamiliar
with working with HS4s (same with points vs electronic ignition).

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e-mail signatureUnder those circumstances a fault has obviously developed.  I'd definitely resolve that first.  If you start messing changing major components and still have problems you won't know whether the original fault is still there, or it is something you have done, or both.  But why do you think four things all happened to go wrong at the same time? PaulH.
 ----- Original Message -----  
 It ran great for @400 miles on a run from Raleigh, NC to just North of Caryville, TN in the New Years Eve subzero weather, then quit.  Would fade and then rev back up (until it didn't anymore).  Probably a combination of fuel pump, bad fuel, coil, and voltage regulator issues. Man was it cold on that mountain waiting for AAA!

  Here are the reasons for my suspicions. The prior owner did not drive the car very much. Fuel Pump (weak slow clicking from the points and sharp blow to the pump caused increase in performance) Bad Gas (Problems began almost immediately after refueling.  Lack of prior driving and severe cold may have settled some debris & water in bottom of the tank). Coil (I had similar problems on another MGA that turned out to be an overheating and failing coil) Voltage Regulator ( Problems arose after turned on lights and wipers and heater  --  the starter would not crank and no electrics on failure.  Started it a couple of time with the hand crank though. The seller gave me the charger as part of the deal and he had a trickle charger installed permanently in the car.  I was able to recharge the battery overnight  and then it cranked well.  Of course, it could be the generator or wiring downstream from the regulator.  It is on my to do list ) The heater control valve also sprang a leak over the distributor, but that seems to have occurred only after the breakdown. My question really is whether I should go back to the OEM set up (which I have n irrational preference for) assuming all the other problems are already sorted.  Or would I be giving up some significant performance enhancements.  It did go over the Continental Divide in NC strong and well at 60 MPH.

 On 1/10/2018 2:13 AM, PaulHunt73 wrote:

e-mail signatureUnder those circumstances a fault has obviously developed.  I'd definitely resolve that first.  If you start messing changing major components and still have problems you won't know whether the original fault is still there, or it is something you have done, or both.  But why do you think four things all happened to go wrong at the same time?   PaulH. 
 ----- Original Message -----  
  It ran great for @400 miles on a run from Raleigh, NC to just North of Caryville, TN in the New Years Eve subzero weather, then quit.  Would fade and then rev back up (until it didn't anymore).  Probably a combination of fuel pump, bad fuel, coil, and voltage regulator issues. Man was it cold on that mountain waiting for AAA!

 -- 
 e-mail signature<!--#yiv2012100914 _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {font-family:"CaslonOpnface BT";panose-1:4 2 6 5 8 3 3 3 2 3;}#yiv2012100914 #yiv2012100914 p.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 li.yiv2012100914MsoNormal, #yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", "serif";}#yiv2012100914 .yiv2012100914MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv2012100914 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv2012100914 div.yiv2012100914WordSection1 {}--> Robert Guinness     Agreed, need to find out why it stopped running first.

 CR
 On 1/10/2018 2:13 AM, PaulHunt73 via Mgs wrote:

e-mail signatureUnder those circumstances a fault has obviously developed.  I'd definitely resolve that first.  If you start messing changing major components and still have problems you won't know whether the original fault is still there, or it is something you have done, or both.  But why do you think four things all happened to go wrong at the same time?   PaulH. 

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