triumphs
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Vacuum or not? A synopses (kinda long)

To: Barry <bschwart@pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Vacuum or not? A synopses (kinda long)
From: Bollen <bollen@ibm.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:12:27 -0500
Cc: triumphs@Autox.Team.Net
References: <34C7E8A1.33CD@pacbell.net>
Barry wrote:
> 
> With all the talk about whether or not to keep the vacuum advance units
> on distributors, and the lack of understanding of what exactly the
> function of these are to some individuals, I thought I might try to
> enlighten a few of you as to what the function of the vacuum unit is.
> This is no means definitive and I don't purport to be an expert, but I
> have learned a few things over the years (ahem, your kidding, Paul
> McCartney had a band before wings?) and thought I would share this
> information for those interested.  Also for the purposes of this
> discussion the following only applies to maximum efficiently or power,
> and not the control of harmful emissions.  That said, and all
> disclaimers applied, a little simplified internal combustion basics -
> 
> Engines, to operate efficiently, require the spark to fire at some point
> BEFORE the piston reaches TDC.  This is to allow the explosion to build
> enough pressure (push) on the top of the piston, at just the right time,
> to provide optimum power.  If it is started too soon (advanced) then
> this explosion reaches piston while it's still traveling upward and you
> lose power, (trying to push the piston the wrong way) waste energy, and
> create heat in the combustion chamber area (and usually knocking or
> detonation from an explosion instead of a nice smooth flame traveling
> from the upper cylinder to the piston top).  If started too late
> (retarded) then you loose power because the piston is already traveling
> downward, before the flame explosion can "push" it.  This also creates
> heat in the surrounding combustion chamber because remember, heat is
> energy.  This energy, if not used to push the piston, is released either
> into the surrounding water jacket or the exhaust manifold instead of
> powering your vehicle.  Both are inefficient as far as maximum power is
> concerned, but it makes an effective heater!  As the engine RPM's
> increase, given that the flame propagation speed remains the SAME, then
> the combustion cycle needs to be started earlier to achieve the desired
> "push" on the top of the piston.  Also, as the pressure (more fuel/air)
> inside the cylinder increases, then the less advance the engine can
> handle at a lower RPM (bigger explosion).  So as you can see it depends
> upon the speed (RPM) of the engine, AND the amount of air/fuel mixture
> (throttle position) that the engine is operating at.  OK, internal
> combustion 101 out of the way -
> 
> Now that we understand (I hope) why we advance our timing it should be
> clear that as the engine speed (RPM), and combustion pressure (amount of
> air/fuel mixture, or volumetric efficiently) increases then the timing
> has to advance or retard accordingly.  (there is a maximum amount but
> that depends on many variables, that we needn't go into for the purpose
> of this discussion).  So, say the engine is idling.  Very low cylinder
> pressure (load), very low speed.  Since there is relatively little
> fuel/air mixture inside the cylinder, then we need to advance the timing
> quite a bit (say 30 deg before TDC for this discussion) to start the
> flame at the proper time.  As the RPM's increase and more fuel/air is
> introduced BUT, no or very little load is applied, then the cylinder
> PRESSURE remains fairly constant and therefore we can use the same
> amount of advance (30 deg).  A purely mechanical advance wouldn't
> achieve the same advance at idle as it would at 3000 or 4000 RPM (unless
> of course it had almost no spring pressure retarding the centrifugal
> weights controlling the advance mechanism).  However, the intake
> manifold pressure is very low (high vacuum) so we can use this to
> advance the timing, via one side of a diaphragm connected to this
> source, and the other to the breaker, or sensor plate in the
> distributor.  Now say your cruising at 2000 RPM little load, again low
> cylinder pressure, optimum advance (30 deg) engines happy.  Suddenly you
> snap open the throttle.  Now you have maximum cylinder pressure, low
> engine speed and advance needs to be at say 12 deg to prevent
> detonation.  If the advance were purely mechanical again, and set for
> optimum advance (30) at the no/low load condition, then we would have
> too much advance for this high load condition, and one unhappy engine
> because of detonation.  However, during high load conditions, the intake
> manifold pressure drops to zero (equals outside manifold pressure or no
> vacuum).  IF the mechanical timing were now optimized for high load, low
> speed conditions (12 deg@2000 RPM), then the vacuum unit can optimize
> the timing at light or no load conditions (30 deg) because it is in
> effect not operating at high load conditions, and the mechanical advance
> can be optimized for high cylinder pressure or maximum load conditions.
> So in this case, when you stomp on the pedal, the timing (at 30 deg
> light load, relatively high vacuum) would drop back to 12 deg, because
> the vacuum is now not operating, as stated before, the manifold pressure
> increased (vacuum dropped to zero) and the diaphragm returned to it's no
> vacuum position.  In this way, timing can be optimized for all engine
> conditions.  For racing, and max power applications, you don't really
> need a system for controlling advance at low or no load conditions
> because these engine are operating at maximum power most if not all the
> time.  (and is one reason why some tend to overheat at idle) Also,
> another reason that early emission systems with idle retard, or advance
> cutouts have a provision that during extended idle periods, when the
> engine begins to overheat, it restores PROPER advance to prevent that
> overheating!
Barry, I am about to swap my Lucas Electronic distributor with vac
advance to a Mallory dual point, all mechanical.Based on your note, does
this mean the engine will be a dog at low RPMs?
Stu
74TR6 80TR8


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>