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Re: [Shop-talk] Making a trap door safe

To: Rand E <rande@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Making a trap door safe
From: Scott <scott.hall.personal@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:54:15 -0800
Cc: shop-talk@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: shop-talk@autox.team.net
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I was thinking for just him and his wife. I'm reasonably certain the 
barrier would stop me, and probably my wife too. And (more importantly) 
I know I won't sue myself.

On the other hand, it's only a matter of time before the one of you 
using the trap door forgets to use the barriers, or doesn't use them 
because you'll "just be down there for a second". That will be the time 
the other of you gets up to get the glass of water.

I'd keep the trapdoor if it was just me in the house. Or my and my wife, 
because I know she's not getting up to do laundry at 2:00 a.m. If your 
wife might, I'd loose the trapdoor.

And there is just no way on earth I'd ever let a tenant rent a house 
with a trap door in the floor. That sounds to me like an excellent way 
to see the worst of human nature. The most interesting aspect of that 
rental would be: can an attorney write a clause in the rental agreement 
that indemnifies you from liability related to the trapdoor that could 
actually withstand litigation, and then, could your bank account 
withstand such litigation, even assuming successful resolution? That's a 
question I'll never want to find out for myself, personally.

In all seriousness, o.p., if you go through it, get a liability coverage 
of at least $10 million. That should be enough to run off the claimants 
when the company tenders limits on day one of the issue. I wonder what 
that policy would cost. Put the cottage in a separate S-Corp or L.L.C. 
(or Trust, or whatever). Find a good attorney and discuss this with 
them. Probably want to protect your other house too.

(Really $10 million. Lifetime skilled nursing care or wrongful death is 
probably more than that, but 33% of eight figures tends to motivate a 
plaintiff's attorney in most small towns, I'd bet.)

Sheesh...when did I get so cynical?

On 1/18/2013 7:08 AM, Rand E wrote:
> Someone would then figure out how to 'trip' over the barriers.
>
> Randy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Scott <scott.hall.personal@gmail.com>
> *To:* shop-talk@autox.team.net
> *Sent:* Fri, January 18, 2013 7:36:16 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Shop-talk] Making a trap door safe
>
> All the engineering solutions are pretty cool sounding, but after 
> being a landlord myself, there's just no way I'd ever rent out a house 
> with a trapdoor in it, no matter what. I'd build a staircase--even 
> outside the house, if I had to--before I let tenants use a trapdoor in 
> a hallway. Shoot, I'd nail the trapdoor shut and just eliminate access 
> to the basement entirely before I let a tenant use a trapdoor.
>
> I don't think you could buy enough liability coverage to cover 
> lifetime skilled nursing care for someone falling through that thing. 
> And they will find a way to do it. I had a tenant flush a deodorant 
> bottle down a toilet. After that, anything seems possible.
>
> For just you guys, you could install gates in the hallway--like a 
> railroad crossing barrier. When someone uses the trapdoor, they lower 
> the barriers on either side of it. If they were just above 
> waist-height, and if they locked into a latch on both sides of the 
> hallway they'd certainly make you aware of their presence before you 
> fell into a hole in the floor, no matter how sleepy you were. You 
> could even tie them into the operation of the trapdoor itself.
>
> But all that sounds to me like as much work as putting a three-foot 
> bump-out and a staircase on an exterior wall.
>
> Scott
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