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Yes totally agree that hi carbon spring steel does not age if not abused.
Having said that, it would be good practice to compare free lenghts against
a known good quality one
Found this on a spring manufacturers site.
*The first question is =E2=80=98could a spring last forever?=E2=80=99 and t=
he answer is
yes, it could do if*
- *The operating stresses are not too high*
- *The working temperature does not cause the spring to lose too much
load*
- *The environment does not cause corrosion*
- *The spring is not abused*
- *The spring is well-made and free from imperfections.*
*If a spring meets the above requirements, yes it could potentially last
forever!*
rg
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On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Michael Salter <michaelsalter@gmail=
.com>
wrote:
> Re: "Yes, springs wear out."
> Correctly designed, manufactured and installed springs don't wear out.
> Very occasionally they will suffer from fatigue cracking but that is rare
> and a function of poor design.
> Think valve springs or distributor point springs; millions and millions o=
f
> cycles and still as good as the day they were installed.
>
> M
>
>
> On Sat., Aug. 12, 2023, 2:25 p.m. Hank Leach via Healeys, <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Bob-good point. I just got a set of springs from Moss (from OD Spares i=
n
>> UK, I imagine). The cost was $99 or about $12/spring which in the scope =
of
>> things is really not relevant. Holding that clutch in tight contact to t=
he
>> brake ring is paramount and just imagine the number of miles in direct
>> drive that the car has experienced...many at high RPM. The other side of
>> the brake for overdrive position is the "lazy side" as the operating
>> pistons under hydraulic pressure have plenty of clout driving mostly ste=
ady
>> RPMs. Yes, springs wear out.
>>
>> I place them on the bench and line up the lengths. They should measure
>> 4-1/2" for the long springs and 4-1/4" for the short ones but invariably
>> there is differences in the resting length. After 50+ years of pushing y=
ou
>> would tend to get tired. When in overdrive, the springs are greatly
>> depressed. That is asking a lot for spiral metal to accomplish. So, yes
>> they may look good, but have poor stamina-oops, I just describe all of u=
s.
>> Hank
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> From: "Bob Spidell"
>> To: healeys@autox.team.net
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Friday August 11 2023 9:19:34PM
>> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Laycock overdrive
>>
>> re: "... The health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct drive
>> is important to keep the clutch from slipping...."
>>
>> I believe the shop manual admonishes owners to replace these when
>> overhauling the unit, even if the old ones look and feel fine (some say
>> not so). I think my old ones are in a box on a shelf somewhere if
>> anybody wants them.
>>
>> Note the O/D pump is a positive displacement pump that will continue to
>> produce pressure--driven by the full power of the engine--unless there
>> is a pressure relief mechanism.
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2023 10:34 AM, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
>> > Guys-this is a very lively topic and one of sometimes great mystery
>> > and confusion. The unit is complex but the end result is working well
>> > or not functioning at all.
>> >
>> > On the subject of pressure required to operate the shift into
>> > overdrive there are many schools of thought. Some people replace or
>> > stretch springs or add washers to increase the pressure needed. The
>> > health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct drive is
>> > important to keep the clutch from slipping. The pressure supplied to
>> > overcome the strength of these 8 spring , and effect overdrive, relies
>> > on adequate hydraulic pressure. The change from direct to overdrive
>> > needs to be smooth, not harsh, and if pressures are high the unit will
>> > snap into and out of OD rather than the smooth interchange we are used
>> > to while driving.
>> >
>> > When applied to the Austin Healey 100, the Laycock overdrive was
>> > initially a 32% reduction unit. It was soon found out in these early
>> > Warwick cars that 32% was too much reduction. DHMC swapped units
>> > three times in the original DMH tour car until they finally found a
>> > combination that produced the smooth shift and complimentary gearing
>> > desired.
>> >
>> > It is difficult, today, to find any information on this original 32%
>> > gearbox, however if you examine the booklet (attached) supplied by
>> > Laycock for the early cars, you will notice that the casting allowed
>> > for a large accumulator piston (seen on p6 in brochure). After some
>> > research and modified engineering, the company came up with this alloy
>> > "sleeve" called the piston housing (photo) which partially filled the
>> > chamber of the original large accumulator casting and allowed for a
>> > smaller accumulator piston that we see in all the later 28% reduction
>> > units. That size piston, in proper condition, produced from 350-450
>> > lbs of needed hydraulic pressure to overcome the springs influence.
>> >
>> > I'm confident that the remark made by Geoff Healey in his writings
>> > about the early transmissions "harsh shifting" revolved around this
>> > huge accumulator piston producing too much pressure. Additionally,
>> > there were three various accumulator springs supplied which adjusted
>> > the pressure. The early boxes produced about 350lbs and the later
>> > about 450.
>> >
>> > Today, Overdrive Spares supplies that sleeve housing with only one
>> > rubber O-ring as it is basically a filler part and not under extreme
>> > pressure. The accumulator piston within is under that pressure. They
>> > supply a modified piston using O-ring technology. So, it is not
>> > unusual to get good pressures over the normal 450 lbs required. If it
>> > works well don't fix it. The only concern is if the pressure does not
>> > release when overdrive is not called for. A clean unit, with proper
>> > 30W oil, will allow that to happen. All this some old theory and
>> > history to ponder. Hank
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Yes totally agree that hi carbon spring steel does no=
t age if not abused. <br></div><div>Having said that, it would be good prac=
tice to compare free lenghts against a known good quality one<br></div><div=
><br></div><div>Found this on a spring manufacturers site.</div><div>
<p><i style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">The first question is =
=E2=80=98could a spring last forever?=E2=80=99 and the answer is yes, it co=
uld do if</i></p><ul><li><i style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">=
The operating stresses are not too high</i></li><li><i style=3D"font-family=
:comic sans ms,sans-serif">The working temperature does not cause the sprin=
g to lose too much load</i></li><li><i style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,s=
ans-serif">The environment does not cause corrosion</i></li><li><i style=3D=
"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">The spring is not abused</i></li><li=
><i style=3D"font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">The spring is well-made =
and free from imperfections.</i></li></ul><p><i style=3D"font-family:comic =
sans ms,sans-serif">If a spring meets the above requirements, yes it could =
potentially last forever!</i></p><p><font face=3D"arial,sans-serif">rg<br><=
/font></p>
</div></div><div id=3D"DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br><table sty=
le=3D"border-top:1px solid #d3d4de"><tr><td style=3D"width:55px;padding-top=
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tyle=3D"width: 46px; height: 29px;"></a></td><td style=3D"width:470px;paddi=
ng-top:12px;color:#41424e;font-size:13px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-s=
erif;line-height:18px">Virus-free.<a href=3D"http://www.avg.com/email-signa=
ture?utm_medium=3Demail&utm_source=3Dlink&utm_campaign=3Dsig-email&=
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g.com</a></td></tr></table><a href=3D"#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2=
" width=3D"1" height=3D"1"></a></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Aug 13, 2023 at 9:40=E2=80=AFAM Mich=
ael Salter <<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com";>michaelsalter@gma=
il.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"m=
argin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left=
:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto">Re: "Yes, springs wear out."<div dir=3D"a=
uto">Correctly designed, manufactured and installed springs don't wear =
out.</div><div dir=3D"auto">Very occasionally they will suffer from fatigue=
cracking but that is rare and a function of poor design.</div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Think valve springs or distributor point springs; millions and millio=
ns of cycles and still as good as the day they were installed.</div><div di=
r=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">M<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br style=3D"=
font-size:12.8px"></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=
=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat., Aug. 12, 2023, 2:25 p.m. Hank Leach =
via Healeys, <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank=
">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Bob-good point.=C2=A0 I just got a set of spri=
ngs from Moss (from OD Spares in UK, I imagine). The cost was $99 or about =
$12/spring which in the scope of things is really not relevant. Holding tha=
t clutch in tight contact to the brake ring is paramount and just imagine t=
he number of miles in direct drive that the car has experienced...many at h=
igh RPM. The other side of the brake for overdrive position is the "la=
zy side" as the operating pistons under hydraulic pressure have plenty=
of clout driving mostly steady RPMs. Yes, springs wear out.<div><br></div>=
<div>I place them on the bench and line up the lengths. They should measure=
4-1/2" for the long springs and 4-1/4" for the short ones but in=
variably there is differences in the resting length. After 50+ years of pus=
hing you would tend to get tired. When in overdrive, the springs are greatl=
y depressed.=C2=A0 That is asking a lot for spiral metal to accomplish. So,=
yes they may look good, but have poor stamina-oops, I just describe all of=
us. Hank<br><br><div></div><p>-----------------------------------------</p=
>From: "Bob Spidell" <u></u><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@aut=
ox.team.net" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a=
><br>Cc: <br>Sent: Friday August 11 2023 9:19:34PM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys=
] Laycock overdrive<br><br>
re: "... The health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct
drive<br>
is important to keep the clutch from slipping...."<br><br>
I believe the shop manual admonishes owners to replace these
when<br>
overhauling the unit, even if the old ones look and feel fine (some
say<br>
not so). I think my old ones are in a box on a shelf somewhere
if<br>
anybody wants them.<br><br>
Note the O/D pump is a positive displacement pump that will
continue to<br>
produce pressure--driven by the full power of the engine--unless
there<br>
is a pressure relief mechanism.<br><br><br>
On 8/11/2023 10:34 AM, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:<br>
> Guys-this is a very lively topic and one of sometimes great
mystery<br>
> and confusion.=C2=A0 The unit is complex but the end result is
working well<br>
> or not functioning at all.<br>
><br>
> On the subject of pressure required to operate the shift
into<br>
> overdrive there are many schools of thought. Some people
replace or<br>
> stretch springs or add washers to increase the pressure
needed. The<br>
> health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct drive
is<br>
> important to keep the clutch from slipping.=C2=A0 The pressure
supplied to<br>
> overcome the strength of these 8 spring , and effect
overdrive, relies<br>
> on adequate hydraulic pressure. The change from direct to
overdrive<br>
> needs to be smooth, not harsh, and if pressures are high the
unit will<br>
> snap into and out of OD rather than the smooth interchange we
are used<br>
> to while driving.<br>
><br>
> When applied to the Austin Healey 100, the Laycock overdrive
was<br>
> initially a 32% reduction unit. It was soon found out in these
early<br>
> Warwick cars that 32% was too much reduction.=C2=A0 DHMC
swapped units<br>
> three times in the original DMH tour car until they finally
found a<br>
> combination that produced the smooth shift and complimentary
gearing<br>
> desired.<br>
><br>
> It is difficult, today, to find any information on this
original 32%<br>
> gearbox, however if you examine the booklet (attached)
supplied by<br>
> Laycock for the early cars, you will notice that the casting
allowed<br>
> for a large accumulator piston (seen on p6 in brochure). After
some<br>
> research and modified engineering, the company came up with
this alloy<br>
> "sleeve" called the piston housing (photo) which partially
filled the<br>
> chamber of the original large accumulator casting and allowed
for a<br>
> smaller accumulator piston that we see in all the later 28%
reduction<br>
> units. That size piston, in proper condition, produced from
350-450<br>
> lbs of needed hydraulic pressure to overcome the springs
influence.<br>
><br>
> I'm confident that the remark made by Geoff Healey in his
writings<br>
> about the early transmissions "harsh shifting" revolved arou=
nd
this<br>
> huge accumulator piston producing too much pressure.
Additionally,<br>
> there were three various accumulator springs supplied which
adjusted<br>
> the pressure. The early boxes produced about 350lbs and the
later<br>
> about 450.<br>
><br>
> Today, Overdrive Spares supplies that sleeve housing with only
one<br>
> rubber O-ring as it is basically a filler part and not under
extreme<br>
> pressure. The accumulator piston within is under that
pressure. They<br>
> supply a modified piston using O-ring technology. So, it is
not<br>
> unusual to get good pressures over the normal 450 lbs
required. If it<br>
> works well don't fix it.=C2=A0 The only concern is if the
pressure does not<br>
> release when overdrive is not called for. A clean unit, with
proper<br>
> 30W oil, will allow that to happen. All this some old theory
and<br>
> history to ponder. Hank<br>
><br><br>
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