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Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.
More digging..
White sludge in valve cover.
Watery oil in tappets.
Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.
Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clea=
n.
We'll see if the head or the block is the problem.
With my recent luck, it could be both.
________________________________
From: Robert Lang <robertlangtr6@yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM
To: FOT Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solarant@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum
The cooling of the radiator and temp spike seem to indicate an air bubble i=
n the system. It could get there from spot temps causing localized boiling =
or it could come from a pressure leak from the combustion chamber or head g=
asket.
If you think you have a cracked head or bad head gasket, try pressurizing t=
he system and see if the pressure holds. Stant makes a tool like, there are=
probably others, but buy or borrow this tool. It takes all the guess work =
out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure an=
d see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is o=
kay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.
I would also verify that the ignition timing is not too far advanced. Not t=
hat I ever had that problem. :-)
Note that you can also use the Stant gauge to verify "normal" system pressu=
re - you want to do that to make sure your cap pressure will keep the coola=
nt from boiling.
Good luck figuring out the problem.
Regards,
Bob Lang
On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via Fot =
<fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
I'm having cooling problems.
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.
Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.
Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hoses=
and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and c=
oolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator cold with sky high coolant temps.
Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened the=
radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and co=
olant shot everywhere.
No thermostat and I have confirmed three times that system is completely fu=
ll
Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles eventua=
lly removing pump prime.
Don't know what else it could be.
Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some "=
stop leak" product?
Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?
I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked b=
y two different trusted engine machinists.
Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.
_______________________________________________
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
@yahoo.com
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<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none;"> P {margin-top:0;margin-bo=
ttom:0;} </style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr">
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Thanks Rich, Robert, and everyone else.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
More digging..</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
White sludge in valve cover.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Watery oil in tappets.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Head is off and stripped, ready for the machine shop.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
Strange that this morning before the third test, the oil was clear and clea=
n.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
We'll see if the head or the block is the problem. </div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
With my recent luck, it could be both.</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div style=3D"font-family: Calibri, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;=
color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" class=3D"elementToProof">
<br>
</div>
<div id=3D"appendonsend"></div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Robert Lang <rober=
tlangtr6@yahoo.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 23, 2023 5:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> FOT Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>; Anthony Parker <solar=
ant@hotmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Coolant conundrum</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"x_ydp59097fd5yahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica=
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">The cooling of the radiator and temp=
spike seem to indicate an air bubble in the system. It could get there fro=
m spot temps causing localized boiling or it could come from a pressure lea=
k from the combustion chamber or head
gasket.<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">If you think you have a cracked head=
or bad head gasket, try pressurizing the system and see if the pressure ho=
lds. Stant makes a tool like, there are probably others, but buy or borrow =
this tool. It takes all the guess work
out of such problems. My rule of thumb is to bring it up to cap pressure a=
nd see if it holds for at last 30 minutes (plus or minus a couple of lb is =
okay, but loosing half or more in less than 30 minutes is a dead giveaway.<=
br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I would also verify that the ignitio=
n timing is not too far advanced. Not that I ever had that problem. :-)</di=
v>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Note that you can also use the Stant=
gauge to verify "normal" system pressure - you want to do that t=
o make sure your cap pressure will keep the coolant from boiling.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Good luck figuring out the problem.<=
/div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Regards,</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Bob Lang<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false"><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyahoo_quoted_6336859216" class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyaho=
o_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font=
-size:13px; color:#26282a">
<div>On Saturday, September 23, 2023 at 02:05:24 PM EDT, Anthony Parker via=
Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-famil=
y:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"font-size:=
15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<span class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"margin:0p=
x">I'm having cooling problems.</span></div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Need help being convinced that I have to do what I don't want to do.</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Brand new short block, same old head, water pump, and radiator.<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin:0px"><br class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv87186141=
22ContentPasted0">
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"margin:0px=
">Over three trials, the engine will run fine and warm up with radiator hos=
es and radiator warming properly. Then the hoses and radiator will cool and=
coolant temp will spike to 230+. Radiator
cold with sky high coolant temps.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin:0px"><br class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv87186141=
22ContentPasted0">
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"margin:0px=
">Two more clues, hoses seem to pressurize very quickly and when I opened t=
he radiator cap this morning (after cooling all night) pressurized air and =
coolant shot everywhere.</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"margin:0px=
"><br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"margin:0px=
"><span class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted1" style=3D"display=
:inline!important; background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">No thermostat and I h=
ave confirmed three times that system is
completely full</span><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin:0px"><br class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv87186141=
22ContentPasted0">
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0" style=3D"margin:0px=
">Seems I have combustion gases getting into coolant and then bubbles event=
ually removing pump prime.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"margin:0px"><br class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv87186141=
22ContentPasted0">
</div>
Don't know what else it could be.</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Given the apparent direction of the leak, is there any use in trying some &=
quot;stop leak" product?</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Is it time to pull the head again to look for warping or gasket leak?</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
I suppose it could be a cracked cylinder, but this block has been checked b=
y two different trusted engine machinists.</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
<br>
</div>
<div class=3D"x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718614122ContentPasted0 x_ydpf09cc1feyiv8718=
614122elementToProof" style=3D"font-size:15px; margin:0px; color:rgb(36,36,=
36); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Desperately trying to get to the RunOffs, Anthony.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fo=
t@autox.team.net</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tp://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
=3D"_blank">
Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br>
bertlangtr6@yahoo.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yahoo.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
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_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
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