Foot initially in my mouth up to the knee, I wrote:
>> Marc, I'm glad to hear that you've found all the bits you will need
>> to put an Austin Maxi 5 speed 'box in your S4 Elan.
Mike "just keepin' um honest" Causer responded:
> Does this come with a FWD conversion kit? :-)
<good one, Mike>
Aieekk!! Poetic justice, I suppose... it serves me right, for making
dumb off the cuff comments about the Austin Maxi 'box. Of course, as
I knew all along but had forgotten, it uses a Lotus-designed case.
I didn't know that the Austin Maxi is actually a fwd car!
<facial expression, as if eating a lemon wedge>
Never seen one either, come to think of it....
Foot now in my mouth up to the hip, I wrote:
>>> My main point was (and still is) that it never came as original
>>> equipment in the Elan
Marc wrote:
>> The person who will be supplying me with the box and all of the other
>> bits (clutch, cover plate, throwout brg, etc) actually owns one of
>> the original 5 speed Elan sprints. I really envy him. Before I go
>> too far though...His name is Mick Miller. Anybody heard of him? What
>> sort of reputaion does he have, if any?
Mike C. replied:
> He is very supportive of the local Lotus Club, EALC, and is an
> all-round good bloke.
Next, Par-Olof Hakansson delivered the coup de grace:
> I bought my Plus 2 S130/5 from Henning Wendel who used to be the
> Swedish Lotus agent. His son, Lars, told me that they made a special
> order for 5 Elan Sprints with 5 speed boxes. These cars were among
> the *very* last, if not the last Elans built. At least one of these
> cars are now in the Lotus Car Club of Sweden.
Wow. So, it is *not* just an urban legend? Fascinating. Were all 5
cars initially exported to Sweden, then? I guess that might explain
why many people here, and in the UK, have been skeptical about the
story, down through the years. Anyway thanks for the info, P-OH!
Finally, Ray Jang asked:
> You have me very curious about the details of the Austin Maxi parts
> that would fit into a Lotus gear box. Would you mind providing more
> information especially cost (privately, if I missed a posting to the
> list)?
Well, the case is unique. Besides the few "holy grail" 5 speed Elans,
this gearbox came in the +2S 130/5 and the Eclat (any others?) The
case was surely designed to order, to fit the Austin Maxi guts. I
think you could just follow the same approach that Marc has, and find
a complete gearbox used somewhere... ideally, one from a 5 speed
equipped +2 (right, P-O?) because it would then have the right
bellhousing, and all the other little bits. Read also my comments
below, about some possible alternative Elan 5 speed options.
Now, back to the earlier thread, I wrote:
>> Lotus built a tranny once. The factory mechanics called it the
>> "queer-box". ;-)
Mike C. Replied:
> Lotus bought the gear cluster from Getrag (I think, maybe ZF), got a
> foundry to make a housing, bought in gears, bearings.......... Ok, in
> this case the gear cluster was their own design too, but the point is
> that nobody makes every piece that goes into a complex product in
> their own workshops.
I didn't know that, about the queerbox. Thanks, Mike. I guess I
vaguely imagined the poor overworked minions of Colin Chapman's
racing workshop toiling away into the wee hours, milling tiny
hand-fitted parts, sweating over their hot casting ladles..... ;-)
<never mind>
> To return to the original problem, fitting a 5 speed to an Elan;
> that Lotus 5-speed _is_ pretty fragile, and I am sure that the car is
> better off with the 4 speed, unglamourous as it is. As Erik says,
> there are lots of variations on the Ford box around, I would first
> pick the final drive ratio and then the gearbox to suit. That is, if
> quiet cruising is the aim (in a Lotus???), fit a high diff and a
> gearbox with fairly wide ratios, if it's performance and a much
> racier feel to the car you want, fit a low diff and a really close
> ratio box.
Well, the Ford 'box is such a superb item, that few people have
previously even considered other alternatives. But the problem
lately is, these Ford three rails are getting kinda long in the
tooth, and it is getting hard (impossible, for a few key parts) to
find new spares in the US. Maybe this situation is better in the
UK?
Invariably, along with the idea of looking for a replacement gearbox
that can be maintained from the modern parts bin, comes the thought
of upgrading to a 5-speed...
There seem to be a lot of people around the world interested in Elan
5-speed conversions. The cat's meow, WRT originality and "heritage",
would (I think) be the Jack Knight three rail 5 speed, but they are
now, apparently, unobtanium. Recently, I've found myself wondering
if Jack Knight would do a small run of these things. If someone
approached him, politely (translation: with cash money in hand)
requesting an order for 5 or 10 of them, would he bite? I don't
know whether the original tooling still exists. There *would* seem
to be an aspect of "from the frying pan into the fire" here, though,
with regard to long term maintainability.
Spydersport have a ZF 5-speed conversion they have been selling to
customers using Spyder Elan frames. I have seen pictures of this.
It is truly an elegant looking installation. I still want to find
out what donor vehicle this comes from. Someone here suggested the
Bedford CF van, a while back, but I really have no idea whether this
is correct.
There is a surprisingly long list of *other* 5 speed transplant
surgeries that people have performed on Elans, with varying degrees
of success, including using the Ford T9, the Toyota T50, and
(according to an unconfirmed rumor) an Alfa Romeo 'box. The
all-alloy 5-speed out of the Alfa GTA has a superb set of ratios,
and I've often wondered whether it would fit. There has even been
mention made of the possibility of fitting the 5 speed out of the
original Datsun roadster.
My tentative, and highly personal, conclusion is that the Toyota
T50 may be the best compromise available, for us here in the
States. It has an alloy case, is readily available (and dirt cheap)
from the Japanese market engine importers, has an acceptable length
from bellhousing to shift lever (within 2 inches of stock) if you
can find the short tail housing, and has close ratio gear sets
available, from about three manufacturers.
There is, of course, always the +2S 130 5 speed, as well. This is
certainly the easiest swap to obtain the correct bellhousing for,
other than the Jack Knight three rail!
So, it has come full circle again.
Regards,
Erik "you can pass me the crow, now" Berg
4 rwd, 0 fwd
PS> Apologies for the blatant, shocking WOB
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