> As has been mentioned already, one problem that could result is a flame
> war between a dissatisfied customer and a commercial list member.
[. . .]
> If all comments turn out to be negative, so be it.
> Maybe they were deserved.
Here's a story I don't think I've ever told anyone. It's appropriate
to tell it now.
In 1991, there was some discussion about a supplier who shall remain
nameless for reasons that will become obvious. Several Britcars list
members had bought components from this supplier, all with some degree
of dissatisfaction -- some major, as in the parts self-destructed and
caused collateral damage; some minor, as in the parts self-destructed
and simply caused a soft failure. These specific cases were on race motors,
which might have been construed as removing any implied warranty, but
it also of course meant that the purchasers were out not only the cost
of the items, but also the cost of the race, support for the crew, etc.,
turning a bad $100 distributor into a waste of over $500 and several days.
(Also, Porterfield Racing, distributor of Ferodo brake pads and other
equipment, credited me for a set of brake pads that were clearly
defective on their part, in spite of my having used them on the race
car. Good firms will indeed stand by their products, and earn the
right to be so recognized.)
Some time after this, a British cars list member asked for experiences
with this supplier. I, perhaps intemperately in retrospect, cited
these examples as reasons to be cautious about purchasing from them.
I got a livid phone call some time later. There was a lot of spittle-
drenched ranting about lawsuits, about reputation, about good name. I
was as nice and contrite as I thought I needed to be under the circum-
stances; I don't believe I even pointed out that if they had sold good
parts in the first place, this wouldn't have happened, or that in
California (where both the supplier and the customers were located), the
laws are pretty strongly on the consumer's side. I also didn't point out
that for this person -- who was not a member of the British-cars mailing
list -- to even *have* a copy of my private posting to this private
mailing list was quite possibly in violation of a number of Federal laws
on the privacy of information contained in computers and computer networks.
The person who called me mentioned a friend who was on this list, but not
by name or geographic location. I have never been given a clue as to who
that might have been.
Before this incident, I had purchased over a thousand dollars worth of
M.G. parts from this firm; they had contacts that enabled them to buy
British parts directly from Britain and sell Lucas, Girling, AE-Vandervell
and other manufacturers' products at consistently the best prices around.
I personally have no intention ever of doing business with that firm
again.
The experience has made me more cautious in what I say about a business.
The perhaps chilling lesson here is that you have to be careful what
you write, even if the supplier in question *isn't* on the list. It's
not like sitting over a pint with your mates, griping about the high
cost of camshaft tensioners or flywheel valves. Your words live on.
And furthermore, we have (or at least, in 1991 we had) a weasel in our
midst. Think about *that* one, while you bask in the imagined camaraderie
and openness of this presumably sacrosanct forum.
And if that person is still on this list... it's a small net. And in
the words of Milton, "the mills of God grind slow, but they grind
exceeding small."
> If ads, even in limited form, are to be permitted, I think the subject
> line should clearly state that the message is commercial in nature.
I'll go farther and say that if ads are to be permitted, they must
be paid for. Who gets the money? Discounts to netters won't work for
all of us, as Roland points out -- what good is an MGB door sill repair
kit to his Snake? Maybe we could have them send money to the Fat Chance
Garage. :-) Seriously, if this were a club newsletter, we would charge
for ad space and the money would go into the club's account. Since we
don't have such a mechanism, overt ads are obviously right out.
There are still many valid commercial reasons (no, I'll shut up about them)
for many parts and service suppliers to be on the list. I'd even accept
a technical discussion with prices in it -- hell, I put the prices in
my restaurant reviews. I know that if you have to ask, you can't afford
it, but I still have to budget my repairs, and knowing how much something
costs would be valuable to me in making a decision on when to purchase it.
> I don't think it would be proper to intersperse plugs for products in
> technical commentary. Perhaps a separate commercial email list would be
> appropriate for ads.
Uh-huh. Yeah, that's what *I* want, 80-100 messages a week that are all
ads... NOT. On second thought, they would have more content than 80-100
messages from people saying they don't WANT ads. I might see something
I need in an ad for Britcar parts.
Come on, everyone. "Commercial uses" doesn't mean "commercials." The sky
is NOT falling. Clearly, we're all in such violent agreement over this
that it's making my head hurt...
I think the role model would be as the guest tech speaker at a club
get-together. Surely we've all done something like this, where we
invite a representative from the local shop to show up at the pub and,
between rounds of ESB and darts, we pick their brains about how to
rebuild the trafficator or how to update the canister filter to a
modern spin-on. And if it turns out that the supplier happens to have
a canister-to-spin-on filter conversion kit on special during that
month's club meeting, well, cool. If I don't want that conversion kit,
I'll either skip the meeting or, more likely, talk to the tech speaker
about the problems I'm having at that time.
--Scott "So what other non-argument can we beat to death?" Fisher
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