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Re: Transmissions

To: "Olenick, Jamison" <Olenick@ssims.nci.nih.gov>,
Subject: Re: Transmissions
From: "George Schiro" <gschiro@lni.net>
Date: Fri, 26 Mar 1999 15:07:22 -0500
The Borg Warner T56 is the transmission found in '93 - '98 Camaros and
Firebirds/Trans Ams (F-body), '97 - '98 Corvettes (Y-body), and '91 - '98
Dodge Vipers.  
The '93 F-body T56 has less desirable gear ratios, and is only rated at 350
lb/ft of torque,  while the '94+ T56 is rated at 450 lb/ft.  The Corvette
uses a different bellhousing.

I don't know whether there are any Ford applications.  Don't know if it
will bolt onto an AMC bellhousing.  Again, there may be a Jeep adapter or
bellhousing as there are many more special components and adapters made for
Jeep than AMC's.  If it weren't for the availability of Jeep parts I would
think again about keeping the AMC engine.  Hot Rodders do this type of swap
all the time.  The main restriction Brickliners face is the lack of space.

  
----------
> From: Olenick, Jamison <Olenick@ssims.nci.nih.gov>
> To: 'Bricklin' <Bricklin@autox.team.net>
> Subject: RE: Transmissions
> Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 10:41 AM
> 
> George,
>    Is the T-56 a Borg warner product???
>    I am a member of the AMC list and John Elle wrote a long email about
the
> conversion that he did on an AMX with a 390.  He installed a T-5 from a
mustang
> because the T-5 bolts directly to the bellhousing from a 77 or newer AMC
donor
> car (that came with a T-4/T-5).
>    So...will the T-56 bolt up dirrectly also.  Then there would be no
problem
> except for the speedo.
>    Have any ideas on a clutch.  Would you use a new AMC clutch or would
you go
> with a GM/Ford (depending on trans).  My impression was that an AMC
clutch would
> have to be used.  
>    John said that there was a small problem with the retainer bearing (i
think)
> that can be solved with a lathe or getting the one off of the donor car.
>    Yes, a plate would have to be made to mount the trans, and the drive
shaft
> would have to be dealt with...
>    I do think that the T-56 is a way better option but I am sure that
they will
> be high$ compared to 87-93 Mustang T-5's. 
> 
>                                               Jamie
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Schiro [SMTP:gschiro@lni.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 10:26 AM
> To:   Olenick, Jamison; bricklin@autox.team.net
> Subject:      Re: Transmissions
> 
> Jamie,
> 
> 
> My mistake.  I meant to say 93 or newer F Bodies ( GM -  Camero etc. ).  
> The 94 and newer have a wider ratio ( 0.5 to 1 overdrive ).  Are you
> planning to use an AMC engine or the Ford 351 ( or other) ?  A T56 will
> handle more torque than a Tremec.  
> 
> There are several options for a trans swap.  One approach for manuals is
to
> get the bell housing, master/slave cylinder etc from the donor and have
an
> adapter plate made to go between the bellhousing and the block.  This is
> preferred with the T56 as you should use just about everything from the
> donor.  You might be able to retain the flywheel which simplifies the
> starter motor aspect.  Sometimes you can redrill the block or bell
housing
> to accommodate the donor without an adapter.  Another approach is to do
as
> you are suggesting and go with an AMC bellhousing and make an adapter
> between the bellhousing and the transmission.  Have you tried a Jeep with
> an AMC 360 as the donor?   However it is done, the alignment between the
> input shaft and transmission must be precise.   If you don't know what
you
> are doing and don't have access to the right tool and gauges and a good
> machine shop, let someone else do the work.
> 
> The main problem with the T56 is the electronic VSS speedometer signal. 
> You need to either use a digital Speedo or get an electronic to
mechanical
> conversion kit ( they do exist).   Which ever transmission you use, you
> will have to make up a new transmission mount.  I suppose the best advice
> is to find out if anyone has done this successfully.  A good source for
> this info would be the AMX list ( AMXfiles ).  There is likely someone
> there who has tried a Tremec or T56 swap into an  AMC.
> 
> Another issue to consider is a new transmission usually means modifying
the
> propshaft and accommodating different yokes ( and splines).  The usual
> approach here is to combine the donor and recipient propshafts.   AMC
even
> suggested in their performance upgrade book to beef up the propshaft
> because the existing one was only marginal for higher than stock torque
> applications.  They also suggest adding a second keyway to the
halfshafts. 
> They suggest using the propshaft from the Rebel Machine, but a good solid

> truck propshaft makes more sense, especially if you go to a beefier rear
> end such as a Ford 9 inch or a Dana ( Spicer ) 60.  
> 
> If you are going to the trouble of swapping transmission and reworking
the
> propshaft, you might consider a Lincoln Versailles Ford 9" that has been
> discussed here previously as you can get disk brakes that way.   The
> Bricklin is a heavy car and has really needed better brakes from the
start.
>  The alternative is to install metallic brake shoes in the rear drums,
but
> the drums aren't very wide nor do they have good heat dissipation.  I
don't
> know if anyone has installed wider, finned
> brake drums, but it is possible to do.  
> 
> 
> Question: if you did do the Lincoln swap to disk brakes all around, would
> you need to remove the proportioning valve?  Would the existing power
boost
> be sufficient to operate 4 wheel disk or would you need to swap in
> something like the Bendix system that is powered by the power steering
> pump?
> 
> I am thinking of going with the AMC 401 ( an very solid motor and the
> smallest V8 package I have found that gives over 400 cid - important
given
> the restricted engine compartment in the Bricklin ).  The motor will put
> out about 400 BHP and 440 FPT  with about 9.25:1 CR.  I'd like to use a
T56
> with a beefed up propshaft and a Ford 9" rear end with 4 wheel disk
brakes.
>  Having lived in Europe for 10 years, I got used to driving with 6
speeds. 
> You really feel you are driving!
> 
> George Schiro  
> 
> ----------
> > From: Olenick, Jamison <Olenick@ssims.nci.nih.gov>
> > To: 'George Schiro' <gschiro@lni.net>
> > Subject: RE: Transmissions
> > Date: Friday, March 26, 1999 7:13 AM
> > 
> > George,
> >    What 82-92 F-Body cars are you refering to????  Sure...A T-56 would
be
> even
> > better....
> >    I think that my main problem will be finding a 77 or newer AMC Donor
> car to
> > get the bellhousing, clutch and brake petals, cables, etc....i plan on
> taking
> > everything except the trans itself.  I am guessing that with the cost
of
> the
> > donor car, trans, installation ( i am not going to attempt it myself),
> new drive
> > shaft, new clutch that I will be looking at ~$2000 or so.
> >    My thoughts on the Tremec were that it is sold as a high performance
> > replacement for 5.0 Mustangs able to withstand 400lb/ft.  (i have know
> some guys
> > to do some nasty things to them without breaking)
> >    Everyone wants to talk me out of doing a conversion and just
> rebuilding the
> > 727 (for ~$800 (race quality)).  I just think that I like 5 (or 6)
speeds
> that
> > much better ....mmmmmmmmm overdrive.
> >    I am going to do some looking today to find a AMC Donor.
> > 
> >                                             Jamie
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:       George Schiro [SMTP:gschiro@lni.net]
> > Sent:       Thursday, March 25, 1999 5:33 PM
> > To: George Schiro; bricklin@autox.team.net
> > Subject:    RE:  Transmissions
> > 
> > Why put in a T5 when you can put in a T56  6 speed in just as easily
and
> > cheaply?   Pick one up from an '82-'92 F-Body.  Just be sure to get ALL
> the
> > bits from the donor car.
> > 
> > George Schiro

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