--===============0535332457==
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charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
There are so many misconceptions that have been brought up in this discusion it
would be impossible to address them all.
Air, water and our cars do not like to make tight 90 turns. When you go around
a corner in your MG you make a nice radius, not an L. If you did bad thing
would happen. Experiance teaches us we can not trun on a dime or we will hear
the crashing of metal as your car rolles over. The same is true of air flowing
into our carburators. The air crashes togeather causing swirling and blockage.
Velocity stacks work by increasing the inlet track length, eliminating
turbulance and improving air flow. I almost all cases they will help low end
power, as most intakes are way too short. They are designed to fit under the
hood, be inexpensive and allow an air filter to protect the engine. VS also
provide better mixing of fuel and air.
More air flowing through the same size carb usually requires leaning the
mixture, not making it richer. Higher vacuum is created with more air flow
enriching the mixture. Bigger carbs reqiire larger jets because there is less
vacuum to suck the fuel up and out.
Most veloicty stacks on the market are very poorly designed. They have too
large an inside diameter and/or to short and do not have a proper radius. The
radius should wrap all the way around.
A proper VS can have other benifits as well. I was lucky to work for one of the
top motor flow experts when I was younger. He showed me a lot of tricks on his
custom built flow bench. Since then I have done cylinder heads for many AMA
national champions like Kenny Roberts. I have been able to almost double the
air flow on a head without increasing valve size. More then double with larger
valves.
Most performance mods come at a cost. Ie you lose bottom end to gain top end.
But with good air flow that is not usually the case. Proving better air flow
will usually help throughout the power range.
--
Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Allen Bachelder <bachldrs@comcast.net> wrote:
Are we comparing apples with oranges here? Take an air cleaner off any carb
and you'll hear more noise. Why? Air cleaners themselves absorb/insulate some
sound. And different kinds vary. The K&Ns are slightly noisier than stock MGB
air cleaners. I don't think that's because they're less efficient. My guess is
that they provide less acoustic insulation.
Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you saying that even if everything else
is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with velocity stacks for those of
us who spend most of our lives below 3500 rpm?
*********************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder
North Street, MI
bachldrs@comcast.net
*********************************************
On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, charles durning wrote:
Just my 2 cents. The extra noise from a fan or an engine is just the noise
made from air movement. Though our engines do make more power at the higher
rpms (thus more noise) it's actually not as efficent at processing the air
movement as it is at a slower speed. I believe that the most efficent engine
in the world has an 8 foot stroke and maxes out at102 rpm. It's most efficent
speed is 100rpms. That gives plenty of time to extract all of the engergy from
the fuel/air misture. When the heater fan is turning at 3 times the low speed
it is not moving 3 times the air, just moving more air. Noise is just unused
energy.
In my case I really don't care one way or another. I have pancake air filters
with no air flow enhancements. A nice throaty sound from a MG exhaust is a
plesant sound no matter how it gets there.
Charlie Durning
If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is watching.
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Wayne & Isabel Hardy <gwhardy@suddenlink.net>
wrote:
Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, but fact of the matter is that
the big old factory cleaner was much quieter than the small cleaners or just
velocity stacks...more air seems to make more noise, just turn your garage fan
from low to high speed and tell me which setting is loudest or sit in the car
and turn the heater / ac fan up to high and compare it to the low setting and
see which one you like best.
The intake roar doesnâ??t bother me in the least nor does a nice hum from the
exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseous noises from either end.
From: Gene deRuelle
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013
To: Michael Anderson ; List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the fuel/air mixture to
whatever is IN the air? In other words, you can't run the stacks and an air
cleaner, can you?
Gene D
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Anderson
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
I respectfully disagree that more air = more noise by default. "Noise" to a
mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product of
inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from
whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise).
Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same -
because the efficiency of the system is increased.
To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli is
working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some
kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the
"apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard
90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge which
is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.
Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack on.
Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow.
Mike!
Michael Anderson
One of a Kind Stuff/AEU
775 772-2056
_____________________________________________
From: Wayne & Isabel Hardy <gwhardy@suddenlink.net>
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America <zmagnette@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, November 15, 2013 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to the inlet, then more
power should always be the result. If more power is â??Betterâ??, then the
answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to get a more better
running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a result is to be more
power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket to heaven. I know the
K&N filter people caution that their filters flow so much more air than the
usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or slight enrichment adjustment
may be desirable for best running.
Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create more inlet roar
under acceleration. Is that â??Betterâ?? or not???
I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the Magnette one for
better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up with summer 100
degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the resultant
changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to richen the
mix by about 1/8th of a turn.
MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better engine life in a variety
of dirty dusty operating situations around the world, and for more civilized
operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors ran with velocity stacks
and no filters usually.
Wombat
From: Allen Bachelder
Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
I'm cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about
the Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air
pressure is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air
pressure decreases as air speed increases inside the carb. Without a conical
stub stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet. How
much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a
squared-off leading edge?
That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any of
this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I would
think they would be Bernoullian disasters. Would a Magnette engine always run
better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?
Curious in Michigan.
(Allen)
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
****************************************************************
On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:
Depending on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a
ram effect which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer
runners means more torque while shorter ones mean more power. Not lots, but it
all contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowing
exhaust to make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel economy. You
note vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a
stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters
the throatâ?¦ I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&Nâ??s on my
MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my Magnette.
From: zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net
[mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Richard Greenberg
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34 PM
To: List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
Subject: Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter that lies closer to the
engine than a regular pancake filter?
On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:
I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss catalog:
http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28996#top Are
these from APT or Rimmer better?
Always anxious to learn...
Allen
****************************************************************
Allen & Florrie Bachelder =iii=<
Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs
'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT
North Street, MI 48049, USA
http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs
****************************************************************
On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM, monster@caverock.net.nz wrote:
Hi everyone,
I'd like to get a pair of 1.5" H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash
several times to see if he would make some more, but I haven't got an answer
from him.
So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types
available at a reasonable cost:
$32.50 ea
-http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx
$57 pair - http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT
I've excluded the K&N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.
Are there any others that people would recommend?
They're going to fit inside K&N filters that are 2 1/8" thick.
regards,
--
Robert (in NZ)
_______________________________________________
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Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
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------5FFVWHV6XND147VNG7YC84PCMC32II
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode:
space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">There are so many
misconceptions that have been brought up in this discusion it would be
impossible to address them all. <br>
Air, water and our cars do not like to make tight 90 turns. When you go around
a corner in your MG you make a nice radius, not an L. If you did bad thing
would happen. Experiance teaches us we can not trun on a dime or we will hear
the crashing of metal as your car rolles over. The same is true of air flowing
into our carburators. The air crashes togeather causing swirling and blockage.
<br>
Velocity stacks work by increasing the inlet track length, eliminating
turbulance and improving air flow. I almost all cases they will help low end
power, as most intakes are way too short. They are designed to fit under the
hood, be inexpensive and allow an air filter to protect the engine. VS also
provide better mixing of fuel and air.<br>
More air flowing through the same size carb usually requires leaning the
mixture, not making it richer. Higher vacuum is created with more air flow
enriching the mixture. Bigger carbs reqiire larger jets because there is less
vacuum to suck the fuel up and out.<br>
Most veloicty stacks on the market are very poorly designed. They have too
large an inside diameter and/or to short and do not have a proper radius. The
radius should wrap all the way around.<br>
A proper VS can have other benifits as well. I was lucky to work for one of the
top motor flow experts when I was younger. He showed me a lot of tricks on his
custom built flow bench. Since then I have done cylinder heads for many AMA
national champions like Kenny Roberts. I have been able to almost double the
air flow on a head without increasing valve size. More then double with larger
valves. <br>
Most performance mods come at a cost. Ie you lose bottom end to gain top end.
But with good air flow that is not usually the case. Proving better air flow
will usually help throughout the power range. <br>
-- <br>
Sent from my Android phone with <a href="http://mail.com";>mail.com</a> Mail.
Please excuse my brevity.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">Allen Bachelder
<bachldrs@comcast.net> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);
padding-left: 1ex;">
Are we comparing apples with oranges here? Take an air cleaner off any
carb and you'll hear more noise. Why? Air cleaners themselves absorb/insulate
some sound. And different kinds vary. The K&Ns are slightly
noisier than stock MGB air cleaners. I don't think that's because they're less
efficient. My guess is that they provide less acoustic
insulation. <div><br></div><div>Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you
saying that even if everything else is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to
mess with velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of our lives below
3500 rpm?<br><div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0,
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height:
normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight:
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-
effect:
none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div
style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium;
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;
">*********************************************</div><div style="word-wrap:
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;
">Allen & Florrie Bachelder<br>No
rth
Street, MI</div><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><a
href="mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net";>bachldrs@comcast.net</a><br>*********************************************<br><br></div></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 1:18 PM, charles durning wrote:</div><br
class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div>Just my 2
cents. The extra noise from a fan or an engine is just the noise made
from air movement. Though our engines do make more power at
the higher rpms (thus more noise) it's actually not as efficent at
processing the air movement as it is at a slower speed. I believe
that the most efficent engine in the world has an 8 foot stroke and maxes
out at102 rpm. It's most efficent speed is 100rpms. That gives
plenty of time to extract all of the engergy from the fuel/air misture.
When the heater fan is turning at 3 times the low speed it is not moving 3
times the air, just moving more air. Noise is just unused
energy. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>In my case I really don't care one way or another. I have pancake
air filters with no air flow enhancements. A nice throaty sound from a MG
exhaust is a plesant sound no matter how it gets there.<br clear="all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div> </div>
<div>Charlie Durning</div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="4">If you are using Google or Gmail, Big Brother is
watching.</font></div>
<div> </div></div></div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 11:08 AM, Wayne & Isabel
Hardy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gwhardy@suddenlink.net";
target="_blank">gwhardy@suddenlink.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#ccc 1px solid;MARGIN:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;PADDING-LEFT:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size="4">Yea that sounds nice all that about efficiency, but fact of
the matter is that the big old factory cleaner was much quieter than the small
cleaners or just velocity stacks...more air seems to make more noise, just turn
your garage fan from low to high speed and tell me which setting is loudest or
sit in the car and turn the heater / ac fan up to high and compare it to the
low setting and see which one you like best.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">The intake roar doesnâ??t bother me in the least nor does a
nice hum from the exhausting gases but some folks do not like gaseous noises
from either end.</font></div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div><font size="4" face="Calibri"></font> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="deruelle@att.net" href="mailto:deruelle@att.net";
target="_blank">Gene deRuelle</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="mjamgb@sbcglobal.net"
href="mailto:mjamgb@sbcglobal.net"; target="_blank">Michael Anderson</a> ; <a
title="zmagnette@autox.team.net" href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">List for the Z Magnette Group - North America</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div><font face="Arial">If you run the little stacks, aren't you subjecting the
fuel/air mixture to whatever is IN the air? In other words, you can't run
the stacks and an air cleaner, can you?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Gene D</font></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT:#000000 2px
solid;PADDING-LEFT:5px;PADDING-RIGHT:0px;MARGIN-LEFT:5px;MARGIN-RIGHT:0px">
<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a
title="mjamgb@sbcglobal.net" href="mailto:mjamgb@sbcglobal.net";
target="_blank">Michael Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="zmagnette@autox.team.net"
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; target="_blank">List for the Z Magnette
Group - North America</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 15, 2013 6:58
AM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">I
respectfully disagree that more air = more noise by default. "Noise" to a
mechanical engineer (or most any engineer) is an undesireable by-product of
inefficiency, i.e. whatever is causing the noise is sapping energy from
whatever the machine is supposed to do (unless it's job is to make noise).
Having said that, stub stacks should reduce noise -all else being the same -
because the efficiency of the system is increased.<br>
<div><span><br></span></div>
<div>To that end, Allen opens up the issue of Bernoulli. In our carbs Bernoulli
is working hard for us at the piston/bridge, not the inlet throat. Without some
kind of "stack" Bernoulli is screwing with us at the carb inlet as the
"apparent" inlet diameter gets smaller due to the air having to make a hard
90-degreee turn... turbulence is also introduced before the piston/bridge which
is not a happy thing for nice even fuel induction.<br>
<br>Those two reasons are what makes the mixture "change" when you put a stack
on. Not more air, per se, but quality of air flow. <br></div>
<div><br>Mike!</div>
<div><br><br></div>
<div>Michael Anderson<br>One of a Kind Stuff/AEU<br><a
href="tel:775%20772-2056" target="_blank" value="+17757722056">775
772-2056</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:times new roman,new york,times,serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font face="Arial"><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">From:</span></b> Wayne
& Isabel Hardy <<a href="mailto:gwhardy@suddenlink.net";
target="_blank">gwhardy@suddenlink.net</a>><br><b><span
style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">To:</span></b> List for the Z Magnette Group - North
America <<a href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">zmagnette@autox.team.net</a>> <br>
<b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, November 15, 2013
1:19 AM<br><b><span style="FONT-WEIGHT:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Zmagnette] Stub stacks<br></font></div>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:14pt">
<div><font size="4">If the carbs are tuned again to compensate for more air to
the inlet, then more power should always be the result. If more power is
â??Betterâ??, then the answer is yes. But you must adjust for more airflow to
get a more better running motor..ie more air will need more fuel too if a
result is to be more power. Maybe a new, slightly richer needle is the ticket
to heaven. I know the K&N filter people caution that their filters flow so
much more air than the usual paper ones, that a richer needle, or jet, or
slight enrichment adjustment may be desirable for best running.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">Of course all this extra air flow is also likely to create
more inlet roar under acceleration. Is that â??Betterâ?? or not???</font></div>
<div><font size="4">I personally run the MGA cleaner assemblies rather than the
Magnette one for better access to the carb adjustment screws for keeping up
with summer 100 degree days now swinging to winter 50 - 60 degree days and the
resultant changes in idle speeds due to cooler, denser air, and the need to
richen the mix by about 1/8th of a turn.</font></div>
<div><font size="4">MG put on the big old ugly oil bath filter for better
engine life in a variety of dirty dusty operating situations around the world,
and for more civilized operation in a quieter manner. Their true race motors
ran with velocity stacks and no filters usually.</font></div>
<div><font size="4"></font> </div>
<div><font size="4">Wombat</font></div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">
<div style="FONT:10pt tahoma">
<div> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="bachldrs@comcast.net"
href="mailto:bachldrs@comcast.net"; rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Allen
Bachelder</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 14, 2013 10:21 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="zmagnette@autox.team.net"
href="mailto:zmagnette@autox.team.net"; rel="nofollow" target="_blank">List for
the Z Magnette Group - North America</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;DISPLAY:inline;FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri';FONT-SIZE:small;FONT-WEIGHT:normal;TEXT-DECORATION:none">I'm
cautiously venturing beyond my paygrade here, but are we not talking about the
Bernoulli Principle: stating that as air enters a conical tube the air pressure
is maximized, but as the tube diameter conically diminishes, air pressure
decreases as air speed increases inside the carb. Without a conical stub
stack, there is no acceleration in the air entering the carb inlet. How
much lift would we get from a cross-sectionally flat airplane wing-top with a
squared-off leading edge?
<div> </div>
<div>That being said, how can the original Magnette intake plenum perform any
of this function? Same question for the intake plenums on T-series cars. I
would think they would be Bernoullian disasters. Would a Magnette engine
always run better with stub stacks rather than the original plenum?</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Curious in Michigan.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>(Allen)</div>
<div>
<div><span
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span
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helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px"><span
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><b><i>****************************************************************</i></b></span><span
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
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style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>Allen
& Florrie Bachelder
=iii=<<br>Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs</i></b></div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>'57
ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</i></b></div>
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i>North
Street, MI 48049,
USA</i></b></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span><b><i><span
style="FONT-SIZE:12px"><a href="http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs";
target="_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
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style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
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<div style="WORD-WRAP:break-word"><span
style="LINE-HEIGHT:normal;TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;FONT-VARIANT:normal;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;WORD-WRAP:break-word;COLOR:rgb(0,0,0);FONT-WEIGHT:normal"><b><i><span
style="FONT-STYLE:normal;FONT-FAMILY:helvetica;FONT-SIZE:12px;FONT-WEIGHT:normal">****************************************************************</span></i></b></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div>
</span></div></span></div></span></div></span></div></span></span></div></span></span></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div>On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:33 PM, John Park wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote type="cite"><span
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM:none;TEXT-INDENT:0px;BORDER-COLLAPSE:separate;FONT:medium
helvetica;WHITE-SPACE:normal;LETTER-SPACING:normal;WORD-SPACING:0px">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125);FONT-SIZE:11pt">Depending
on length it can produce a much smoother flow, some say a bit of a ram effect
which increases power and torque . Longer stacks as in longer runners means
more torque while shorter ones mean more power. Not lots, but it all
contributes to a freer flowing intake which helps your freer flowing exhaust to
make a bit more power/torque and slightly better fuel economy. You note
vintage racers usually have anywhere from2.5 to 6 inch stacks. Some with a
stocking for a coarse filter, most just hoping nothing of consequence enters
the throatâ?¦ I have a set of 2.25 inch stacks in my 3.25 inch K&Nâ??s on
my MGB and they seem to help. Just the ho hum stock setup on my
Magnette.</span></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;COLOR:rgb(31,73,125);FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </div>
<div>
<div
style="BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE:none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE:none;PADDING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-LEFT-STYLE:none;BORDER-TOP:rgb(225,225,225)
1pt solid;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:11pt">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:calibri,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><span> </span><a
style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"
href="mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net</a><span> </span>[mailto:<a
href="mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net";
target="_blank">zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]<span> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Richard Greenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Wednesday, November 13, 2013 12:34
PM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>List for the Z Magnette Group - North
America<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [Zmagnette] Stub
stacks</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"> </div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">What is a stub stack? Would it allow for a filter
that lies closer to the engine than a regular pancake filter?</div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">On Nov 13, 2013, at 9:53 AM, Allen Bachelder
wrote:</div></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><br><br></div>
<blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">I've always just used the item #54 from the Moss
catalog:<span> </span><a style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"
href="http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28996#top";
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=28996#top</a><span> </span>
Are these from APT or Rimmer better?</div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"> </div></div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Always anxious to learn...</div></div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Allen</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><b><i><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt">****************************************************************</span></i></b></span><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"></span></span></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
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<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">Allen &
Florrie Bachelder =iii=<<br>Spring Creek
Home for Wayward MGs</span></i></b><span style="FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">'57 ZB, '65
B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT</span></i></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><b><i><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">North
Street, MI 48049, USA</span></i></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"></span></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><b><i><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;FONT-SIZE:9pt"><a
style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"
href="http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b></span><span><span
style="FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"></span></span></div>
<div>
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<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:helvetica,sans-serif;COLOR:black;FONT-SIZE:9pt">****************************************************************</span></span><span></span></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"> </div>
<div>
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">On Nov 13, 2013, at 4:10 AM,<span> </span><a
style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"
href="mailto:monster@caverock.net.nz"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">monster@caverock.net.nz</a><span> </span>wrote:</div>
</div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 0pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt"><br><br></div>
<blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP:5pt;MARGIN-BOTTOM:5pt">
<div>
<div style="MARGIN:0in 0in 12pt;FONT-FAMILY:'Times New
Roman',serif;FONT-SIZE:12pt">Hi everyone,<br><br>I'd like to get a pair of 1.5"
H4 stub stacks and I've tried emailing Steve Ash several times to see if he
would make some more, but I haven't got an answer from him.<br>
<br>So... from a light scour of the internet there appears to be two types
available at a reasonable cost:<br>$32.50 ea -<a
style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"
href="http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx";
rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101221%20Billet%20Alloy%20Stub%20Stack%20SU%20HS4.aspx</a><br>
$57 pair -<span> </span><a style="COLOR:blue;TEXT-DECORATION:underline"
href="http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT"; rel="nofollow"
target="_blank">http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-RL1396ALT</a><br><br>I've
excluded the K&N ones as they are very rough, by all accounts.<br>
Are there any others that people would recommend?<br><br>They're going to fit
inside K&N filters that are 2 1/8"
thick.<br><br>regards,<br>--<span> </span><br>Robert (in
NZ)<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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