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For the record:
I consulted extensively with Steve Gyles re the design and manufacture
of the stub stacks for the MGA filter cans, since duplicated by Steve
Ash and others; it is all documented in the UK board archives, though
there were a number of private communications. What he made finally was
almost exactly the design I suggested, less a few subtle details.
I worked from my developed understanding from years of reading and
observation. The specific critical detail that a 1/4" entry radius would
give near optimum results came from Vizard's flow bench tests. It should
be noted that Vizard was testing flow entry from free air, without a
nearby cover plate, and also, without a backplate. One startling thing
he found was that air is drawn from behind, or below, the actual pipe
entry, so he used a 270 degree rollover on his free air stacks. Since
the carb configuration and space limitations on MGA establish the need
for a backplate, the external taper was chosen to reduce the effect of a
backplate as much as possible, giving a 90 degree plus the taper
rollover radius.
It is my understanding that a cover plate should be more than 1.5x the
bore diameter from the entry to avoid flow restriction. Systems with
less clearance should compensate as much as possible; the Bristol
engine, for instance, has very thin filter cans as a result of space
limitations - and Bristol were aero experts without compare, so I pay
attention. They used a "flow turner" stamped into the cover plate. Since
Steve's goal was to make a drop in and look stock part, modifying the
outside of the can was not on, so we did the best possible withing the
space available. This meant reducing the thickness of the stub stack to
the minimum possible to achieve the 1/4 radius without leaving a sharp
or indeterminate edge at the carb bore entry, and in order to keep the
entry as un-obscured by the cover plate as possible. Note that some of
the comments in this thread, regarding stub stack depth versus can
depth, are totally out of line with this reasoning.
I did not know that Barney had posted all that info Robert linked:
http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm
Note that there are several more pages following this one, with dyno
tests and driving impressions from numerous folk. A most valuable
resource, thanks guys.
Vizard indicates that about 5% flow improvement can be obtained with a
1/4" radius in his free air stacks, over a plain cut pipe. Since power
developed is a function of air ingested, assuming reasonable fueling, it
can be taken that power increase should be about the same as airflow
increase. Given the various limitations (including the obstruction of
the posts inside the MGA cans), I expected and hoped for maybe 4%
improvement at best. Consequently, it was gratifying to find the
measured improvements of power very near 5%, which leads to the question
- why? The question gets bigger when we realize that the tested engine
was not optimized for fueling, or even in very good tune.
I think the key here is in the reduction of turbulence around the jet,
and possibly its effect on the vacuum which lifts the air piston. Note
that dyno tests are done at full throttle, so the air piston is almost
fully up at any reasonable test point. The unvarying reports of improved
low speed running and throttle response indicate that improvements are
happening well below the maximum flow range where the expected 5%
improvement lies. If you think about it, at low throttle openings, the
entire active region of the carb throat is within 1/4" of the bottom
edge of the bore, the edges of this area are even closer, and in any
event, the jet is always in this area - this is just where we might
expect turbulence to have the greatest ans least predictable effects.
The reported noise reductions are also an indicator of reduced
turbulence - clean flow does not make noise, turbulent flow does.
The Bernoulli effect here is for pressure on a surface which has a fluid
flowing across it, that would be the surface with the jet in it, and
that pressure reduction is what pulls fuel into the airstream. If there
is turbulent flow across the surface, that pressure drop will vary
randomly, and so will fuel delivery: mixture will never be predictable.
I expect there is room for some additional optimization of fueling here,
which might well leads to further improvement in both low and high
output situations.
At the time of the first test of Steve's parts, I suggested, or begged,
for somebody to go down to Peter Burgess and run some part throttle
acceleration tests. Peter's dyno has trhe capability of measuring
transient effects very quickly, and some tests with blocked throttle
stops might have yielded some good info here. Unfortunately, I'm not
there, and nobody seemed interested.
I think these user reports put Kelvin's guess - "I doubt it's going to
be really noticeable. " out. And, for Allen and others interested in
less than full throttle use, I'd say some attention to these details
might be rewarded well.
While it is not possible on the T/Z plenum to get the full max throttle
effect, some careful radius work on the inside of the plenum at the carb
face might well give the light throttle benefits the stub stacks do.
What you want is as close as possible to a 1/4" radius on the inside
face of the hole, especially on the air approach side and bottom, but
NOT introducing a step to the carb bore. I might say that there is
nothing preventing a bit of judicious radius work on the carb bore
itself, if you also open up the plenum/filter face to avoid the step. In
fact, one thing I was a bit concerned about with the folk filing out
holes was that they might introduce such a step by making fits too
sloppy - the Gyles dimensions are the max possible for the bore in the
stub stack, without enlarging the carb bore.
FRM
On 11/16/2013 12:21 AM, Allen Bachelder wrote:
> Thanks Kelvin,
>
> And I'lll look forward to the cold air intake you have in the works.
>
> Then can we have a discussion about why and how cold air intakes work?
>
> Cheers,
> Allen
> */****************************************************************/*
> */Allen & Florrie Bachelder =iii=<
> Spring Creek Home for Wayward MGs/*
> */'57 ZB, '65 B, '69 C/GT, '73 B/GT/*
> */North Street, MI 48049, USA/*
> */http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs/*
> */****************************************************************/*
>
> On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Kelvin Dodd wrote:
>
>> Allen.
>> First off they are pricey.
>> There are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5" SU. Cast and
>> machined. I've not been impressed with the design of the cast ones
>> which run about $20 each. The machined ones look like they will do
>> the job, but run about $32 each.
>> APT offers both
>> types:http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx
>> Second.
>> At lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow blockage than
>> poor fluid dynamics at the air filter plate. At WOT, it's a different
>> matter.
>> There are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in fluid flow
>> during the dynamics of accelerating and cruising up to 3500 rpm. I
>> was told by one of my engineering teachers that anyone who professes
>> to be an expert on fluid flow is a liar. He stated that it is still
>> more of an art than a science and a dark art at that. In fact, after
>> receiving a doctorate in the field he determined that aircraft are
>> kept in the air by smoke and mirrors because the dynamic forces at
>> work are too complex to be understood by the likes of mankind.
>> If you have to run a pancake style filter, then by all means use a
>> stub stack. Before they became available for the DCOE, I used to cut
>> down the standard long trumpets and braze them up into short stacks.
>> They will make some difference, though I doubt it's going to be
>> really noticeable.
>> Just work on the basics first.
>> *From:*zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net
>> Behalf Of*Allen Bachelder
>> *Sent:*Friday, November 15, 2013 11:03 AM
>> *To:*List for the Z Magnette Group - North America
>> *Subject:*Re: [Zmagnette] Stub stacks
>> Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are you saying that even if
>> everything else is spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with
>> velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of our lives below
>> 3500 rpm?
>> _______________________________________________
>> Zmagnette mailing list
>>
>> Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/archive
>> Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/zmagnette/bachldrs@comcast.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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For the record:<br>
I consulted extensively with Steve Gyles re the design and
manufacture of the stub stacks for the MGA filter cans, since
duplicated by Steve Ash and others; it is all documented in the UK
board archives, though there were a number of private
communications. What he made finally was almost exactly the design I
suggested, less a few subtle details.<br>
<br>
I worked from my developed understanding from years of reading and
observation. The specific critical detail that a 1/4" entry radius
would give near optimum results came from Vizard's flow bench tests.
It should be noted that Vizard was testing flow entry from free air,
without a nearby cover plate, and also, without a backplate. One
startling thing he found was that air is drawn from behind, or
below, the actual pipe entry, so he used a 270 degree rollover on
his free air stacks. Since the carb configuration and space
limitations on MGA establish the need for a backplate, the external
taper was chosen to reduce the effect of a backplate as much as
possible, giving a 90 degree plus the taper rollover radius. <br>
<br>
It is my understanding that a cover plate should be more than 1.5x
the bore diameter from the entry to avoid flow restriction. Systems
with less clearance should compensate as much as possible; the
Bristol engine, for instance, has very thin filter cans as a result
of space limitations - and Bristol were aero experts without
compare, so I pay attention. They used a "flow turner" stamped into
the cover plate. Since Steve's goal was to make a drop in and look
stock part, modifying the outside of the can was not on, so we did
the best possible withing the space available. This meant reducing
the thickness of the stub stack to the minimum possible to achieve
the 1/4 radius without leaving a sharp or indeterminate edge at the
carb bore entry, and in order to keep the entry as un-obscured by
the cover plate as possible. Note that some of the comments in this
thread, regarding stub stack depth versus can depth, are totally
out of line with this reasoning.<br>
<br>
I did not know that Barney had posted all that info Robert linked:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm";>http://mgaguru.com/mgtech/power/pp104.htm</a><br>
Note that there are several more pages following this one, with dyno
tests and driving impressions from numerous folk. A most valuable
resource, thanks guys.<br>
<br>
Vizard indicates that about 5% flow improvement can be obtained with
a 1/4" radius in his free air stacks, over a plain cut pipe. Since
power developed is a function of air ingested, assuming reasonable
fueling, it can be taken that power increase should be about the
same as airflow increase. Given the various limitations (including
the obstruction of the posts inside the MGA cans), I expected and
hoped for maybe 4% improvement at best. Consequently, it was
gratifying to find the measured improvements of power very near 5%,
which leads to the question - why? The question gets bigger when we
realize that the tested engine was not optimized for fueling, or
even in very good tune.<br>
<br>
I think the key here is in the reduction of turbulence around the
jet, and possibly its effect on the vacuum which lifts the air
piston. Note that dyno tests are done at full throttle, so the air
piston is almost fully up at any reasonable test point. The
unvarying reports of improved low speed running and throttle
response indicate that improvements are happening well below the
maximum flow range where the expected 5% improvement lies. If you
think about it, at low throttle openings, the entire active region
of the carb throat is within 1/4" of the bottom edge of the bore,
the edges of this area are even closer, and in any event, the jet is
always in this area - this is just where we might expect turbulence
to have the greatest ans least predictable effects. The reported
noise reductions are also an indicator of reduced turbulence - clean
flow does not make noise, turbulent flow does.<br>
<br>
The Bernoulli effect here is for pressure on a surface which has a
fluid flowing across it, that would be the surface with the jet in
it, and that pressure reduction is what pulls fuel into the
airstream. If there is turbulent flow across the surface, that
pressure drop will vary randomly, and so will fuel delivery: mixture
will never be predictable. I expect there is room for some
additional optimization of fueling here, which might well leads to
further improvement in both low and high output situations.<br>
<br>
At the time of the first test of Steve's parts, I suggested, or
begged, for somebody to go down to Peter Burgess and run some part
throttle acceleration tests. Peter's dyno has trhe capability of
measuring transient effects very quickly, and some tests with
blocked throttle stops might have yielded some good info here.
Unfortunately, I'm not there, and nobody seemed interested.<br>
<br>
I think these user reports put Kelvin's guess - "<span
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate;
font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2;
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
font-size: medium; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); "> I doubt it’s
going to be really noticeable. " <font color="#000000">out.
And, for Allen and others interested in less than full
throttle use, I'd say some attention to these details might be
rewarded well. <br>
<br>
While it is not possible on the T/Z plenum to get the full max
throttle effect, some careful radius work on the inside of the
plenum at the carb face might well give the light throttle
benefits the stub stacks do. What you want is as close as
possible to a 1/4" radius on the inside face of the hole,
especially on the air approach side and bottom, but NOT
introducing a step to the carb bore. I might say that there is
nothing preventing a bit of judicious radius work on the carb
bore itself, if you also open up the plenum/filter face to
avoid the step. In fact, one thing I was a bit concerned about
with the folk filing out holes was that they might introduce
such a step by making fits too sloppy - the Gyles dimensions
are the max possible for the bore in the stub stack, without
enlarging the carb bore.<br>
<br>
FRM<br>
<br>
</font></span></span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/16/2013 12:21 AM, Allen Bachelder
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:BD0640C1-A12C-47E7-8177-CEC67667BC4F@comcast.net"
type="cite"><base href="x-msg://689/">Thanks Kelvin,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And I'lll look forward to the cold air intake you have in the
works.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Then can we have a discussion about why and how cold air
intakes work?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
<div>Allen<br>
<div>
<span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
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-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; font-size: medium; "><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);
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normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
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space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica;
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class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal;
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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; ">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
after-white-space; "><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse:
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family:
Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant:
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing:
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-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break:
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class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size:
12px;
"><b><i>****************************************************************</i></b></span><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; color:
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0px; ">
<div
style="word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;
"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:
separate;
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<div
style="word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;
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after-white-space;
"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:
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0px;
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none;
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auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; ">
<div
style="word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;
"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:
separate;
font-variant:
normal;
letter-spacing:
normal;
line-height:
normal;
orphans: 2;
text-indent:
0px;
text-transform:
none;
white-space:
normal;
widows: 2;
word-spacing:
0px;
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0px;
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing:
0px;
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect:
none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust:
auto;
-webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; ">
<div
style="font-family:
Helvetica;
color: rgb(0,
0, 0);
font-style:
normal;
font-weight:
normal;
word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;
font-size:
12px; "><b><i>Allen
& Florrie
Bachelder
=iii=<<br>
Spring Creek
Home for
Wayward
MGs</i></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:
Helvetica;
color: rgb(0,
0, 0);
font-style:
normal;
font-weight:
normal;
word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;
font-size:
12px; "><b><i>'57
ZB, '65 B, '69
C/GT, '73
B/GT</i></b></div>
<div
style="font-family:
Helvetica;
color: rgb(0,
0, 0);
font-style:
normal;
font-weight:
normal;
word-wrap:
break-word;
-webkit-nbsp-mode:
space;
-webkit-line-break:
after-white-space;
font-size:
12px; "><b><i>North
Street, MI
48049,
USA</i></b></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
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</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span><b><i><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="font-size: 12px; "><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs";>http://www.mgexperience.net/member/bachldrs</a></span></i></b><span
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<div
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<div
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"><span
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<div
style="word-wrap:
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space;
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"><span
class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse:
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<div
style="font-style:
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rgb(0, 0, 0);
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"><b><i><span
class="Apple-style-span" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-weight:
normal;
font-style:
normal;
font-size:
12px;
">****************************************************************</span></i></b></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></div>
</span></span></div>
</span></span>
</div>
<br>
<div>
<div>On Nov 15, 2013, at 6:28 PM, Kelvin Dodd wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span"
style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica;
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-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none;
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px; font-size: medium; ">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; ">
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
">Allen.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">First
off they are pricey.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There
are two types of stub stack available for the 1.5”
SU. Cast and machined. I’ve not been impressed
with the design of the cast ones which run about
$20 each. The machined ones look like they will do
the job, but run about $32 each.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">APT
offers both types:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx";
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline;
">http://www.aptfast.com/ListItems/SubCategory/SU%20Carburetors/Stub%20Stacks%20and%20Ram%20Pipes.aspx</a><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
">Second.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">At
lower rpm the carburetor piston offers more flow
blockage than poor fluid dynamics at the air
filter plate. At WOT, it’s a different
matter.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">There
are no doubt all kinds of peaks and valleys in
fluid flow during the dynamics of accelerating and
cruising up to 3500 rpm. I was told by one of my
engineering teachers that anyone who professes to
be an expert on fluid flow is a liar. He stated
that it is still more of an art than a science and
a dark art at that. In fact, after receiving a
doctorate in the field he determined that aircraft
are kept in the air by smoke and mirrors because
the dynamic forces at work are too complex to be
understood by the likes of
mankind.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">If
you have to run a pancake style filter, then by
all means use a stub stack. Before they became
available for the DCOE, I used to cut down the
standard long trumpets and braze them up into
short stacks. They will make some difference,
though I doubt it’s going to be really noticeable.
<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125); ">Just
work on the basics first.<o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);
"><o:p> </o:p></span></div>
<div>
<div style="border-right-style: none;
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<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;
">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif; "><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net";
style="color: blue; text-decoration:
underline;
">zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:zmagnette-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Allen
Bachelder<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday,
November 15, 2013 11:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>List
for the Z Magnette Group - North America<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[Zmagnette] Stub stacks<o:p></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div>
<div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; ">Kelvin - your point is well-taken. Are
you saying that even if everything else is
spot-on, it's still not worthwhile to mess with
velocity stacks for those of us who spend most of
our lives below 3500 rpm?<o:p></o:p></div>
<div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in;
margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div>
</div>
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