Bob,
I appreciate your thoughtful response.
Unfortunately, my copies of Carroll's and Mike Taylor's book were stolen
many years ago and I cannot reference them (and have not replaced them).
I would caution you that, as I recall, Carroll's book has many obvious
inaccuracies.
Do you have a copy of Graham Robson's book, "Sunbeam Alpine and Tiger"?
He quotes Peter Wilson, second in the Rootes engineering hierarchy, "I
suppose I was expecting some crude lash-up that was all performance, but
quite unsaleable. The prototype Tiger wasn't like that. Shelby had done
a great installation job, and it felt right, straight away."
Robson further writes, "By Rootes standards, to take a car from first
running prototype . . . to public launch in EIGHT MONTHS [Robson's
emphasis] was unheard of, and many thought it impossible." Rootes
couldn't have done much of anything in this kind of time frame,
certainly not "extensive engineering." Robson is a fine writer and
historian and was a long-time employee of several British firms (Jaguar
among them). It is unlikely that he would minimize the Rootes
engineers' involvement in the Tiger's development; quite the opposite I
would think. And he does not indicate that major changes were made to
the Shelby prototype before production.
The point is that the Miles car was a proof-of-concept lash up that was
completed, I believe, in a little over a week; the Shelby car was a
carefully thought out prototype on an eight week deadline which was
intended to show the home boys that this "special" (in the British sense
of the word) could be produced and sold under the Rootes name without
embarrassment and without reflecting badly on the tradition of
engineering quality that Lord Rootes insisted on. Ian knew this was the
only way he could get Lord Rootes and Co. to seriously consider
producing the Tiger.
I do not mean to indicate that the Rootes engineers didn't make any
changes; human nature would suggest that they tried to make as many
changes as they could! But I think the Shelby car required only a
moderate bit of tinkering here and there and with only eight months from
prototype to launch they simply couldn't have made wholesale changes,
nor run the kinds of engineering studies and durability testing that we
have come to expect, etc., etc. Send the Shelby car to the crusher,
start from scratch, AND launch it in eight months? I don't think I'm
buying that one!
Also, I can't recall many cars that Phil Remington had a hand in that
weren't invested with superior engineering. With a realistic budget and
eight weeks, Phil Remington could accomplish a lot IMO. Cut and try it
may have been, but there was a very experienced and skilled hand
wielding the saw.
I'd clearly forgotten about the royalty deal, as Robson mentions it. And
Boskoff it may be, but I'd sure like to find a contemporary reference
for this. I could have sworn it was Boltoff, but as one ages the memory
is one of the things that goes. What were we talking about?
Best regards,
Greg Wells
Bob Palmer wrote:
>
> Greg,
>
> Thanks for the interesting and informative account of your meeting with Ian
> Garrad. I'm sure you are presenting an accurate and certainly very
> believable account of what transpired. I take these personal accounts with
> every bit as much weight as the printed word; perhaps even more so. But, if
> I believe what I read, for example on pages 43-44 of Mike Taylor's book,
> "Tiger, the Making of a Sports Car", there were two employees at Shelby
> American who should get credit, George Boskoff (head mechanic), and Phil
> Remington (chief engineer), although most of the work was done by Boskoff.
>
> In Bill Carroll's book, "Tiger, an Exceptional Motorcar", he states that:
> "Later reports disclose that engineering and construction done by Shelby
> American were so comprehensive and painstaking that only two significant
> changes (throttle linkage and shock absorber setting) were made after
> testing by Rootes factory engineers prior to approval fro production. Ian
> says, ' As a matter of fact, Carroll Shelby's bill only totaled $8,700.
> Obviously, he made no money at this price but was excited at the successful
> result. Later on, we made arrangements for Shelby to be paid a royalty on
> every Sunbeam Tiger manufactured.' "
>
> On the other hand, there are references in both Carroll's and Taylor's book
> to "cut and fit, or cut and try and fit operations" in the selection of
> components and their installation at Shelby American. Now, this is not what
> I would call "comprehensive and painstaking" engineering. A damn fine
> cobble job perhaps, but production engineered? I don't think so.
>
> OK, I'm back after pouring myself a nice Chardonney. Now where was I? Oh
> yes. So "cobbled together" or such a "splendid job of engineering", all the
> Britts had to do was change the shock setting and the throttle linkage.
> HMMMM?? I think anyone who has worked in engineering knows there's a lot
> that goes on between the prototype and the production model. In the case of
> the Tiger, there are even, to my limited knowledge, quite a few differences
> between the Shelby prototype and the production cars. I really doubt they
> drove the prototype down to the Jensen factory and said "Please build us
> 7,000 more just like this one." Now, on this side of the pond we might like
> to believe it happened this way, but my own experience in taking
> prototypes, no matter how well they perform, to the production level,
> requires extensive engineering. In the case of the Tiger, that engineering
> includes, but is not limited to, all of the unique features that makes the
> Tiger chassis a "Tiger" rather than an "Alger". And did they use the same
> rear axle? The same rack" The same steering arms, etc., etc.? I'm sure
> there is a long list of differences that could be complied. I'm also sure
> it was an important part of the strategy to sell Lord Rootes, et al., that
> the car have the appearance and functional attributes as close to a
> production vehicle as possible so as to pre-empt the kind of objections a
> car like the Miles prototype would have prompted. And, last but not least,
> I'm sure the idea of putting a (groan) American Detroit pig iron motor in
> their fine sports car was itself a formidable hurdle.
>
> All the above notwithstanding, I should probably relent a bit in my
> deprecation of Shelby, et al. and give credit where credit is due. I still,
> however, tend to think that, once old Rootey Tootey gave his thumbs up,
> they could have sent the Shelby car to the crusher and not set the Tiger
> project back much, if any. But, as I said, we'll never know for sure, now
> will we.
>
> Bob
>
> At 08:10 PM 3/8/99 -0500, Gregory Wells wrote:
> >Bob,
> >
> >I stayed for a week back in 1977 with Ian and Laura Garrad (Ian gave me
> >the key to his Marina del Rey office for all but one night, which I
> >spent at their home in Encino) to research a couple of Tiger articles I
> >wrote for Car Collector and Special Interest Autos. Ian pulled out all
> >of the Tiger files and pictures he had (which wasn't much) and we
> >conversed well into the night most of the week.
> >
> >The Miles prototype was a quick and dirty jury-rig done at Ian's request
> >to see if it could be done. The Shelby prototype was assigned to George
> >Boltoff, who was later a noted Can-Am engine builder, and it was done
> >with an eye toward producing the car. Ian wanted to present Lord Rootes
> >with a fait accompli, a car so good and well-crafted that they simply
> >couldn't find an excuse not to move forward with it. According to Ian
> >and my sources, Rootes and Jensen had to do very little to render the
> >Boltoff prototype production ready (I seem to recall that the scuttle
> >braces were added by the Rootes engineers.) The way I see it is that
> >Garrad contracted Shelby for engineering services and got what he paid
> >for. I don't think Carroll hisself had a whole lot to do with producing
> >the prototype. His company, yes, but hands on, not to my knowledge. I
> >have never heard the $5 a car story and Ian said nothing about it to me.
> >Can someone refer me to a reliable source for this?
> >
> >I can tell you that Ian didn't indicate that he had any bad feelings
> >about Shelby. In fact, I sensed a very real regard for the man from Ian
> >Garrad. In one of the missed opportunities of my life, Ian towed me
> >around the Marina checking out what he said were Carroll's favorite
> >watering holes, to see if we could run into him. Alas, we didn't find
> >Shelby anywhere, but we did have a quite few beers.
> >
> >Greg Wells
>
> Robert L. Palmer
> Dept. of AMES, Univ. of Calif., San Diego
> rpalmer@ames.ucsd.edu
> rpalmer@cts.com
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