-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Fox <v4gr@rcn.com>
To: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren@snet.net>
Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Rules/wankel engine size factor.........
>Dave; Calm down, I have read all of your postings and have not disagreed
>here or otherwise with your thoughts. I am only correcting a misconception
>that there is a difference between 2 and 4 stroke engines in the rules. I
am
>not claiming any of this as my logic but only trying to explain the logic
>that was used at the time and to my understanding. I do believe that each
>chamber fires once in each revolution of the rotor, if not the output
shaft,
>and fail to see where I made my error. If you can correct me briefly or at
>length off list I would welcome the education. I knew I was making a
>mistake. Rich Fox--Original Message-----
>From: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren@snet.net>
>To: Richard Fox <v4gr@rcn.com>
>Cc: Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>; Keith Turk <kturk@ala.net>;
>land-speed@autox.team.net <land-speed@autox.team.net>
>Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001 10:42 AM
>Subject: Re: Rules/wankel engine size factor.........
>
>
>>THAT MAY BE THE YOUR LOGIC BUT IT S A MYTH.....IT IS NOT THE
>>WAY THE ENGINE WORKS PERIOD! PLEASE READ MOST OF THE
>>PREVIOUS POSTS I SENT ON HOW THIS THING WORKS THERE OUGHT TO
>>BE ABOUT 50 OF THEM...
>>DAVE DAHLGREN
>>
>>Richard Fox wrote:
>>>
>>> I know this is a mistake but, As I remember it the logic for the X3 for
>>> rotaries is that they have 3 chambers that roughly relate to cylinders
in
>a
>>> reciprocating engine. Each chamber fires once on one rotation of the
>rotor.
>>> So the volume of one chamber is measured at the greatest displacement
and
>>> than multiplied by 3. As it would be done with a 3 cylinder recip. No
>>> handicap or advantage is allowed for two of four stroke engines that I
am
>>> aware of. Its simply the volume of the thing without regard to
>efficiency.
>>> Dan can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think SCTA differentiates
>>> between 2 and 4 stroke engines or ones that go up and down and ones that
>go
>>> round and round. Rich Fox
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>
>>> To: Keith Turk <kturk@ala.net>
>>> Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net <land-speed@autox.team.net>
>>> Date: Thursday, January 04, 2001 09:57 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Rules/wankel engine size factor.........
>>>
>>> >Keith & list,
>>> >
>>> >Of course you have a vote! Now with the internet more than ever. We
have
>>> >covered this before but, for the new people here we go.
>>> >
>>> >There is available at each SCTA/BNI/USFRA meet a Rule Change form. This
>is
>>> >in the registration/impound area. It is not a requirement that this
form
>be
>>> >used.
>>> >
>>> >There is published in the rule book a rule change cutoff date, this is
>>> >usually the end of October. This gives me time to collect all the
>requests,
>>> >put them into order and prepare the rules committee members for up
>coming
>>> >meetings. We generally have two meetings in November to discuss and
>>> >formulate proposed rules changes.
>>> >
>>> >I then put these changes into the format they will appear in the
>rulebook
>>> to
>>> >present to the Board of Directors for voting at the first meeting in
>>> >December. This will ensure that the rulebook can be published in
>January.
>>> >
>>> >There is a published list of Committee Chairpersons in the SCTA
>newsletter,
>>> >the Straightaway News. These people can be contacted for any rules
>>> >clarifications or suggested change input. The head tech persons for
2001
>>> >will again be Steve Batchelor for cars and Dale Martin for motorcycles.
>>> >Their contact information can be found in the 2000 rulebook. If they
>cannot
>>> >answer a question they can point you to the correct committee for a
more
>>> >detailed explanation. All committee and board persons are unpaid
>>> volunteers.
>>> >Unfortunately we cannot force a volunteer to become internet active.
>>> >
>>> >With the advent of the internet and this list our little world has
>become
>>> >ever smaller. Way back in the '70s when I started LSR the rules were
>done
>>> in
>>> >one night by two people from Southern Cal. and approved without
>question.
>>> >
>>> >Our rules committee now has representation from each category, Special
>>> >Construction, Vintage, etc., the USFRA and the ECTA. Through email
ideas
>>> can
>>> >be freely exchanged and valuable input from the entrants evaluated.
>>> >
>>> >Plans are being formulated for 2001 to improve the process by
addressing
>>> >each suggestion as it is proposed and becoming proactive. We will put
>all
>>> >valid change suggestions out to committee for review as it comes in.
>This
>>> >way the suggested change can become a solid recommendation with input
>from
>>> >the originator and other interested parties.
>>> >
>>> >When making a change suggestion it is helpful that you do some
research.
>>> >Indicate the old rule and why you think it should be changed with
>>> >suggestions as to how it should be changed.
>>> >
>>> >I think I have run on enough - if there any questions pertaining to the
>>> >rules process, please feel free to post them.
>>> >
>>> >Dan Warner
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: Keith Turk <kturk@ala.net>
>>> >To: Dave Dahlgren <ddahlgren@snet.net>; <land-speed@autox.team.net>;
Lee
>>> >Kennedy <leekenn@pacbell.net>; Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>;
>Mike
>>> >Manghelli <mmanghel@hughes.net>
>>> >Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 5:18 AM
>>> >Subject: Re: Rules/wankel engine size factor.........
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Dave I really don't have a dog in this fight... But I would like to
>see
>>> >some
>>> >> of the questions you posed answered....
>>> >>
>>> >> Like how do I change a Rule? What are the Procedures? Who do I
>contact?
>>> >> What do I have to Write? What Proof has to be Given of my claim?
>>> >>
>>> >> And in My humble opinion..... DO WE HAVE A VOICE?
>>> >>
>>> >> I think all concerned here agree that the whole Bonneville Experience
>is
>>> >an
>>> >> Amatuer and Volunteer effort.... As such do the folks seeking records
>on
>>> >the
>>> >> salt have a Voice? Can we submit and or seek changes to the rules...
>and
>>> >if
>>> >> we do can we expect a fair and honest appraisal of our words? I
think
>>> >it's
>>> >> important to the health of our sport...
>>> >>
>>> >> Keith Turk
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Dave Dahlgren" <ddahlgren@snet.net>
>>> >> To: <land-speed@autox.team.net>; "Lee Kennedy" <leekenn@pacbell.net>;
>>> "Dan
>>> >> Warner" <dwarner@electrorent.com>; "Mike Cook" <beauty1@hughes.net>;
>>> "Mike
>>> >> Manghelli" <mmanghel@hughes.net>
>>> >> Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 7:06 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: Rules/wankel engine size factor.........
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > To all that might be interested...
>>> >> > It's been over 24 hrs... Not a word although 178 previous
>>> >> > e-mails on the subject not counting the ones i wrote.... Not
>>> >> > even a public show of hands from people here that are in
>>> >> > support, against and or think this needs to be addressed..
>>> >> > message received.. I have my own theories as to why it is so
>>> >> > quiet on this subject, but in general for peace and harmony
>>> >> > and good will to all i think the wise thing to do is just
>>> >> > keep them to myself. everybody have a good day, stand tall
>>> >> > if you can and if you can't, avoid mirrors as they never
>>> >> > lie.
>>> >> > Dave Dahlgren (where it is 8:00 am EST)
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Dave Dahlgren wrote:
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > It has been said that there is a rules meeting in Jan. What
>>> >> > > do I have to do to bring up a rules change for the
>>> >> > > Wankel(aka rotary) engine size factor for serious
>>> >> > > discussion? It has been e-mailed to death all over this
>>> >> > > group and to many individuals with all sorts of information
>>> >> > > to support it. can this be done via e-mail? if so to whom? i
>>> >> > > honestly think that waiting another year is a complete
>>> >> > > dis-service to the members of the LSR community that are
>>> >> > > interested or might consider building a car that uses on of
>>> >> > > these cheap and readily available power plants.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > So how is it done?
>>> >> > > Can it be done?
>>> >> > > Can it be done by phone or fax or e-mail?
>>> >> > > Is there any interest in changing this rule?
>>> >> > > Is there any information lacking that has not been passed
>>> >> > > around on the net?
>>> >> > > Does anyone that makes the rules have any questions at all
>>> >> > > or is there any info that I have left out in all the
>>> >> > > e-mails?
>>> >> > > Out of the people that have been included in this e-mail is
>>> >> > > anyone that helps make these decisions been left out?
>>> >> > > If so how are they contacted?
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > I am hoping for a free exchange of ideas on this subject
>>> >> > > with some honest thought involved that is based on facts not
>>> >> > > history and personal feelings. I personally find it very
>>> >> > > hard to believe that FIA and SCCA is all screwed up in their
>>> >> > > use of engine factors of 2.1......... They have very good
>>> >> > > engineers that work on these subjects on a regular basis and
>>> >> > > represent both national and inter-national competition.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > If the answers to the above questions are no there is no
>>> >> > > interest and there is no desire to change anything or even
>>> >> > > consider any change for the benefit of the LSR community or
>>> >> > > to align SCTA with the rest of the world, please do me a
>>> >> > > small favor, actually two small favors.
>>> >> > > First is let that feeling be known publicly on the net at
>>> >> > > this e-mail group accompanied with the reasons why it can
>>> >> > > not or will not be changed along with the facts that made
>>> >> > > this decision the correct one.
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > The other favor is small but personal, please leave off any
>>> >> > > personal attacks. I am not up to another tirade of being
>>> >> > > called a "Hot Shot wanna-be engineer" or sending out a bunch
>>> >> > > of crap! I do at times find great humor in it though when i
>>> >> > > watch Speedvision and ESPN and cars that I have supplied
>>> >> > > parts, done design work or personally tuned are very busy
>>> >> > > winning.....
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > Dave Dahlgren
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