Re: [Healeys] Failsafe thermostats

[Bob Spidell via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>]

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re: "EC and OT rise rapidly when no airflow as MS describes. rg thinks 
that we under estimate the cooling effect of cruising airflow on the 
actual engine block surface"

I don't underestimate it. Both my Healeys, BN2/100M and BJ8, behave 
exactly the same: On cool days--70degF ambient or less--the engines will 
not reach thermostat set point (180) when cruising. Both heat up when 
sitting at idle. Both run at 180 or slightly above on warmer days, but 
start to heat up quickly at idle and can go to 212. I can only attribute 
the difference to airflow temp.


On 12/30/2024 10:12 AM, Al Fuller wrote:
> Roger - sounds interesting. Can you share pictures of how the 
> information is displayed?
>
> ________________
> Sent from my phone
> Best Regards,
> Al Fuller
>
> On Mon, Dec 30, 2024, 8:30â?¯AM Roger Grace <roggrace@telus.net> wrote:
>
>     Yes, no doubt that idling after a high speed run when the engine
>     was working hard with increased losses is the worst situation for
>     our cars. Another technique to help the "reserve" is to install an
>     overflow recovery tank that ensures you start off with a full
>     header tank. This is a relatively simple project and works well.
>     I am a bit of a temp nut. On my BJ8, display via multiplexed
>     switches :
>     WT - Smiths std gauge
>     OT- oil temp at filter
>     EC - engine compartment near carb intakes
>     TH - top hose water temp
>     Input ambient to rad and cockpit temps just for interest.
>     5 Blade TX fan; oil cooler; EWP electric water pump - manually
>     switched; 160F thermostat - agree with Michael above; rad
>     recovery. As per Harold have 2 x 3/16 holes in thermostat; AL
>     finned sump.
>     Most interesting observations are:
>     Oil takes longer than we think to get close to operating temp at
>     least 30 min but depends on ambient.Often long after the stat. opens
>     TH is generally 10F lower than the WT reading
>     EC and OT rise rapidly when no airflow as MS describes. rg thinks
>     that we under estimate the cooling effect of cruising airflow on
>     the actual engine block surface. Airflow is somewhat limited as a
>     big chunk of metal obstructs and no easy exit. Often wondered if
>     an extractor fan would help - hence the louvres on the hood and
>     sides to get the hot air out for competition cars. My car runs
>     badly when EC is above 155F - becomes too rich for the inlet air.
>     Use the EWP when approaching traffic as above - does not reduce
>     temp, but seems to prevent further increases. Important to
>     anticipate. EWP is really good for controlling heat soak after
>     cutting the engine.
>     Recently removed an electric rad pusher fan as no real benefit and
>     an obstruction to incoming air. Rad inlet deflectors are important
>     Hi ambient of course is a big factor for rad and block cooling.
>     Monitoring OT is very useful and easy to relate to when driving.
>     rg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 9:42â?¯AM Michael Salter
>     <michaelsalter@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>         Like most 100 drivers I have struggled with overheating
>         problems on occasion.
>         The worst situation is when stopping for gas or becoming
>         stalled in traffic on the highway after running at high speed.
>         On those occasions when I do drive in cooler temperatures the
>         temperature usually reaches 75 - 80 degrees C (167 - 176 F)
>         even without a thermostat although the warm up is a little
>         slower.
>         The advantage of running at this cooler temperature is that
>         the system seems to have a larger "reserve" when the above
>         traffic problems occur.
>         I found that the indicated temperature (which is accurate),
>         runs 5 degrees CÂ  higher even when using a 165 degree bellows
>         or wax pellet type thermostat. I suspect this is due to the
>         slight restriction even when the thermostat is fully open.
>
>         M
>
>         On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at 8:32â?¯AM Michael Oritt
>         <michael.oritt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>             I need to replace my thermostat and I see a lot of
>             negative reviews for "Failsafe" units--sold my Moss and
>             many others--which are designed to fail in the open mode. 
>             What is the collective experience with these?
>
>             TIA--Michael Oritt
>             _______________________________________________
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    re: "EC and OT rise rapidly when no airflow as MS describes. rg
    thinks that we under estimate the cooling effect of cruising airflow
    on the actual engine block surface"<br>
    <br>
    I don't underestimate it. Both my Healeys, BN2/100M and BJ8, behave
    exactly the same: On cool days--70degF ambient or less--the engines
    will not reach thermostat set point (180) when cruising. Both heat
    up when sitting at idle. Both run at 180 or slightly above on warmer
    days, but start to heat up quickly at idle and can go to 212. I can
    only attribute the difference to airflow temp.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 12/30/2024 10:12 AM, Al Fuller
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADkpZwHS5E1oDVSMt-NO_pHyGLHpycVDgq+0NPF9zwg6dGB4xw@mail.gmail.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div dir="auto">
        <div>Roger - sounds interesting. Can you share pictures of how
          the information is displayed?</div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">________________<br>
          Sent from my phone <br>
          Best Regards,<br>
          Al Fuller</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Dec 30, 2024, 8:30â?¯AM
          Roger Grace &lt;<a href="mailto:roggrace@telus.net";
            moz-do-not-send="true" 
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">roggrace@telus.net</a>&gt;
          wrote:<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="ltr">
            <div>Yes, no doubt that idling after a high speed run when
              the engine was working hard with increased losses is the
              worst situation for our cars. Another technique to help
              the "reserve" is to install an overflow recovery tank that
              ensures you start off with a full header tank. This is a
              relatively simple project and works well.</div>
            <div>I am a bit of a temp nut. On my BJ8, display via
              multiplexed switches :<br>
            </div>
            <div>WT - Smiths std gauge<br>
            </div>
            <div>OT- oil temp at filter</div>
            <div>EC - engine compartment near carb intakes</div>
            <div>TH - top hose water temp<br>
            </div>
            <div>Input ambient to rad and cockpit temps just for
              interest.<br>
            </div>
            <div>5 Blade TX fan; oil cooler; EWP electric water pump -
              manually switched; 160F thermostat - agree with Michael
              above; rad recovery. As per Harold have 2 x 3/16 holes in
              thermostat; AL finned sump.<br>
            </div>
            <div>Most interesting observations are:</div>
            <div>Oil takes longer than we think to get close to
              operating temp at least 30 min but depends on
              ambient.Often long after the stat. opens<br>
            </div>
            <div>TH is generally 10F lower than the WT reading</div>
            <div>EC and OT rise rapidly when no airflow as MS describes.
              rg thinks that we under estimate the cooling effect of
              cruising airflow on the actual engine block surface.
              Airflow is somewhat limited as a big chunk of metal
              obstructs and no easy exit. Often wondered if an extractor
              fan would help - hence the louvres on the hood and sides
              to get the hot air out for competition cars. My car runs
              badly when EC is above 155F - becomes too rich for the
              inlet air.</div>
            <div>Use the EWP when approaching traffic as above - does
              not reduce temp, but seems to prevent further increases.
              Important to anticipate. EWP is really good for
              controlling heat soak after cutting the engine.<br>
            </div>
            <div>Recently removed an electric rad pusher fan as no real
              benefit and an obstruction to incoming air. Rad inlet
              deflectors are important<br>
            </div>
            <div>Hi ambient of course is a big factor for rad and block
              cooling.</div>
            <div>Monitoring OT is very useful and easy to relate to when
              driving.<br>
            </div>
            <div>rg<br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
            <div><br>
            </div>
          </div>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 28, 2024 at
              9:42â?¯AM Michael Salter &lt;<a
                href="mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target="_blank"
                rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"
                class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>&gt;
              wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid 
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Like
                  most 100 drivers I have struggled with overheating
                  problems on occasion.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
                  worst situation is when stopping for gas or becoming
                  stalled in traffic on the highway after running at
                  high speed.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">On
                  those occasions when I do drive in cooler temperatures
                  the temperature usually reaches 75 - 80 degrees C (167
                  - 176 F) even without a thermostat although the warm
                  up is a little slower. <br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">The
                  advantage of running at this cooler temperature is
                  that the system seems to have a larger "reserve" when
                  the above traffic problems occur.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">I
                  found that the indicated temperature (which is
                  accurate), runs 5 degrees CÂ  higher even when using a
                  165 degree bellows or wax pellet type thermostat. I
                  suspect this is due to the slight restriction even
                  when the thermostat is fully open.</div>
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
                </div>
                <div class="gmail_default"
                  style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br>
                </div>
              </div>
              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">
                <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Dec 28, 2024
                  at 8:32â?¯AM Michael Oritt &lt;<a
                    href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";
                    target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"
                    moz-do-not-send="true" 
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                  wrote:<br>
                </div>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid 
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="ltr">
                    <div class="gmail_default"
                      style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">I need to replace my
                      thermostat and I see a lot of negative reviews for
                      "Failsafe" units--sold my Moss and many
                      others--which are designed to fail in the open
                      mode.  What is the collective experience with
                      these?</div>
                    <div class="gmail_default"
                      style="color:rgb(51,51,255)"><br>
                    </div>
                    <div class="gmail_default"
                      style="color:rgb(51,51,255)">TIA--Michael Oritt</div>
                  </div>
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