--===============4492080175057003737==
--000000000000703f78061fb6ed32
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Had same intermittent Pertronix failures and chased our tail for a whole
season. Switched to TrueSpark and it ran flawlessly for multiple years.
Upgraded to CSI for the rev limiter. TrueSpark (and a set of points) are
our spares.
Cheers, Dave and Shelby
On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 6:31=E2=80=AFPM David Gott via Fot <fot@autox.team.=
net>
wrote:
> Hi Andrew,
>
> I=E2=80=99ve had 3 different pertonix all not work right. Every time I w=
ent back
> to points, it ran great. I=E2=80=99m currently running points with a Bos=
ch Blue
> epoxy filled coil.
>
> I have also picked up a FAST optical ignition system to start running
> if/when points start getting unreliable. I=E2=80=99ve seen a certain fas=
t 250
> running that setup, and I expect it billet proof pending any excess oil
> flying around (what, oil on a triumph? LOL)
>
> Your failure is exactly what I found from pertronix even though they say
> it =E2=80=9Ceither works or it doesn=E2=80=99t=E2=80=9D but that was not =
my experience.
>
> Hope that helps!
>
> Dave Gott
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> <https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=3Dnativeplacement&c=3DGlobal_Acqui=
sition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=3DAcquisition&af_sub2=3DGl=
obal_YMktg&af_sub3=3D&af_sub4=3D100000604&af_sub5=3DEmailSignature__Static_=
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 14, 2024, 4:45 PM, Andrew Devenish via Fot <
> fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
> I thought an update might be in order.
> Thank you for all the suggestions and ideas. Spoiler - still not fixed.
> I have removed and cleaned out the bowl/jet lines, the front had black
> debris, but I don=E2=80=99t think it was enough to block the line, and it=
did not
> fix the problem.
> Fuel pump. I have checked pressure and delivery from the pump, all is
> well. I have now changed to a smaller capacity positive displacement desi=
gn
> as there was concern over interaction of the internal and external pressu=
re
> regulators. Still not fixed.
> Could not find any vacuum leak. I=E2=80=99ve had the manifolds off and ba=
ck on
> since this issue has been around with no change.
>
> A couple of replies were pretty confident that I have an ignition vs fuel
> issue. As I can=E2=80=99t find any fuel issue, I now suspect they may be =
right. I
> run Petronix ignitor 1149 with their coil 40611. This is the correct 3ohm
> set up per Pertronix.
> I purchased a new coil from Amazon - but the replacement coil was
> defective and had a misfire from the start which I could ABA with the old
> coil. Talking with Pertronix the were concerned my new part was not their=
s,
> and maybe a cheap copy - I returned to Amazon, now waiting on a coil from
> Pertronix direct.
> As I=E2=80=99m playing with ignition now, what are you guys using for sig=
nal and
> for coil with good success ?
> Thank you for the advice and support - it will be sorted.
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew Devenish
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 9, 2024, at 5:10=E2=80=AFPM, Andrew Devenish <gt6racer@msn.com> wr=
ote:
>
> =EF=BB=BF Hi Mike,
> The first question is a good one. The car was built for
> autocross by a guy in Indiana who knew his stuff. However, I bought it fr=
om
> a guy who had bought it to run PIB, but knew nothing about race engines. =
He
> had run it lean and holed #4. He told me he had not changed anything, but
> that is turning out not to be the case. (I suspect it holed the piston
> because I found he had fitted gros jets with the float level way too low)=
.
> I rebuilt it to same mechanical spec. It ran great but a little
> lean on the AAU needles for road course, so I=E2=80=99m now on AAA. It st=
ill runs
> great, unless it doesn=E2=80=99t =F0=9F=98=81.
> The car has had this issue since I built it. At first I thought
> the obvious - float heights, needle/seat, regulator pressure etc etc but
> while it always runs great I have this issues after a few =E2=80=9Claps=
=E2=80=9D.
> 2) The car had a Summit racing 3136 pump which has around 90GPH
> and an internal blow off at 7PSI, my regulator is at 4 PSI. Today I had
> taken the pump apart and checked it but all looked OK. I fitted a cheap
> solenoid pump in its place. Issue still there.
> I had checked both the Summit and now the solenoid pump for flow, there i=
s
> plenty.
> As I noted the float bowls are full when it quits running.
> 3) Great point - could be what I have. I know the fuel level in the
> jets is fine when not running, but a poor flow from bowl to jet would
> change that when running. My O2 is in the collector, so I can=E2=80=99t b=
e sure if
> it=E2=80=99s both carbs or just one. All 4 plugs look very similar, but t=
hat is
> possible as this =E2=80=9Clean=E2=80=9D condition is only for a few cycle=
s before it stops
> - not enough to color the plug. Will check when I can ( unfortunately a
> busy weekend coming up as I race sailboats too ). I=E2=80=99ve been think=
ing it is
> heat related, but it could just as easily be time. When I tried to run
> autocross it started to play up after 10 or so seconds of full throttle
> (which I can=E2=80=99t do in my yard). On autocross it would pull like cr=
azy, then
> go very flat, and then come back on, repeat. Your idea would do just that=
!
> 4) always worth a check, but it would have to be something that shows
> up only when hot.
> 5) yes, compression good. Between 220 and 225 for all, measured on
> crank with throttles open.
>
>
> Thanks also to the other responses that I received, I didn=E2=80=
=99t cc all
> on my replies in order to reduce the clutter=E2=80=A6
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew Devenish
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 9, 2024, at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM, Mike Harmuth <ofracer@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi Andrew, a couple of things to check.
> 1st, is this a new problem? if so, what did you touch last?
>
> 2d Verify fuel flow, not just pressure i.e Gallons per hour? Disconnect
> the fuel line at the carbs, and stick it into a 1 quart or one gallon
> clean/clear bottle/jug. Turn the fuel pump on and time how long it takes =
to
> fill (1 Qt/ 1Gal whatever size container you're using). If you're gettin=
g
> more than 20 gallons per hour, the flow is OK. Set the bottle aside and l=
et
> it settle out, look for particles, rubber, fuel cell foam, dirt. If so, s=
ee
> where that's coming from. For example, old fuel cell foam will break down
> and clog the intake. When the pump turns off, the fuel in the lines drops
> back flushing the intake clear until next time. Fuel filter clean? Fuel
> pressure reg OK? Not just holding pressure (I run 3.5 on my HS4s) but
> actually sending fuel down the line? The gallons per hour test will
> indicate if you need to look into any of these areas, if you're gelling
> enough fuel, more down the list for now.
> link to flow and fuel requirements chart
> https://historicracinggroup.com/resources/Reference_Material/Canton/Fuel%=
20Consumption%20and%20Flow%20Quick%20Ref%20by%20CM%20Filters.pdf
>
> 3. A problem I had with an identical set up, was rubber hose breaking dow=
n
> and settling into the little box shaped well in the carb bowl where the
> line to the jet connects. It's happened to me twice now, last time was in
> June with fairly new hose feeding the carbs. It restricted the flow to th=
e
> jet, even though the bowl was full. At high load, not enough fuel could g=
et
> past the blockage.
> <IMG_20240630_112925914.jpg>
>
> 4. Vacuum leak- Is there a crack or loose bolt on the intake manifold?
> With the engine running, spray carb cleaner around the manifold to block,
> carbs to manifold. A change in engine RPM means something was drawn in
> through a gap.
>
> 5. Compression check- Are all the cylinders within 5-10% of each other?
>
> Happy hunting
>
> mike h
>
> On Fri, Aug 9, 2024 at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM Andrew Devenish via Fot <fot@autox=
.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> Guys,
> My car ( 1300, 12.5:1 comp on Sunoco 110 race gas, dual HS4 ) i=
s
> still giving me grief. I=E2=80=99ve chased all the things I can think of,=
but still
> same problem. It starts and runs great, but after a few laps of the yard =
(
> 5-6, only 1000ft or so per up/down lap, so quick accels then braking to
> turn ) it goes very lean ( I have O2 sensor ) and stops. I=E2=80=99m runn=
ing it
> without the hood for these test runs. It always stops at the entry to a
> turn.
> I=E2=80=99ve been working on it a lot, so know it has fuel press=
ure, and
> the float bowls are full of fuel. All plugs look very similar. The needle=
s
> (AAA) are the spring type, and the slides move freely. I use ATF as fluid=
,
> but have tried 50 weight too.
> After a minute or so it will fire back up, but only run enough to
> get back to the shop before going lean again. If I pull out the choke it
> will run, but is unstable.
> I have wrapped headers and a heat shield around the carbs but they
> do still get hot.
>
> Any ideas ? Thinking to try some less volatile fuel as it seems
> heat related and the Sunoco evaporates so fast !
>
>
> Thank you,
> Andrew Devenish
>
> Sent from my iPad_______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/ofracer@gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/triumphsix@yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage <http://www.team.net/pipermail/fotUnsubscribe/Manage>:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/david.c.cutter@gmail.com
>
>
>
--000000000000703f78061fb6ed32
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Had same intermittent=C2=A0Pertronix fail=
ures and chased our tail for a whole season.=C2=A0 Switched to TrueSpark an=
d it ran flawlessly for multiple years.=C2=A0 Upgraded to CSI for the rev l=
imiter.=C2=A0 TrueSpark (and a set of points) are our spares.<div><br></div=
><div>Cheers, Dave and Shelby</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Aug 14, 2024 at 6:31=E2=80=AFPM =
David Gott via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team=
.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div>
Hi Andrew,<div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99ve had 3 different pertonix all not=
work right.=C2=A0 Every time I went back to points, it ran great.=C2=A0 I=
=E2=80=99m currently running points with a Bosch Blue epoxy filled coil.=C2=
=A0</div><div><br></div><div>I have also picked up a FAST optical ignition =
system to start running if/when points start getting unreliable.=C2=A0 I=E2=
=80=99ve seen a certain fast 250 running that setup, and I expect it billet=
proof pending any excess oil flying around (what, oil on a triumph?=C2=A0 =
LOL)</div><div><br></div><div>Your failure is exactly what I found from per=
tronix even though they say it =E2=80=9Ceither works or it doesn=E2=80=99t=
=E2=80=9D but that was not my experience.</div><div><br></div><div>Hope tha=
t helps!</div><div><br></div><div>Dave Gott<br><br><br><div><a style=3D"fon=
t-size:12px" href=3D"https://mail.onelink.me/107872968?pid=3Dnativeplacemen=
t&c=3DGlobal_Acquisition_YMktg_315_Internal_EmailSignature&af_sub1=
=3DAcquisition&af_sub2=3DGlobal_YMktg&af_sub3=3D&af_sub4=3D1000=
00604&af_sub5=3DEmailSignature__Static_" target=3D"_blank">Sent from Ya=
hoo Mail for iPhone</a><br></div><br><p style=3D"font-size:15px;color:rgb(1=
32,115,255);padding-top:15px;margin-top:0px">On Wednesday, August 14, 2024,=
4:45 PM, Andrew Devenish via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"=
target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote><div id=
=3D"m_6963988662622049875yiv7136351215"><div>
I thought an update might be in order.
<div>Thank you for all the suggestions and ideas. Spoiler - still not fixed=
.</div>
<div>I have removed and cleaned out the bowl/jet lines, the front had black=
debris, but I don=E2=80=99t think it was enough to block the line, and it =
did not fix the problem.</div>
<div>Fuel pump. I have checked pressure and delivery from the pump, all is =
well. I have now changed to a smaller capacity positive displacement design=
as there was concern over interaction of the internal and external pressur=
e regulators. Still not fixed.</div>
<div>Could not find any vacuum leak. I=E2=80=99ve had the manifolds off and=
back on since this issue has been around with no change.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>A couple of replies were pretty confident that I have an ignition vs f=
uel issue. As I can=E2=80=99t find any fuel issue, I now suspect they may b=
e right. I run Petronix ignitor 1149 with their coil 40611. This is the cor=
rect 3ohm set up per Pertronix.</div>
<div>=C2=A0I purchased a new coil from Amazon - but the replacement coil wa=
s defective and had a misfire from the start which I could ABA with the old=
coil. Talking with Pertronix the were concerned my new part was not theirs=
, and maybe a cheap copy - I returned
to Amazon, now waiting on a coil from Pertronix direct.</div>
<div>As I=E2=80=99m playing with ignition now, what are you guys using for =
signal and for coil with good success ?=C2=A0</div>
<div>Thank you for the advice and support - it will be sorted.</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none" id=3D"m_6963988662622049875yiv7136351215lineBreakAt=
BeginningOfSignature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you,=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andrew Devenish</div>
<div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div id=3D"m_6963988662622049875yiv7136351215yqtfd81474"><=
br clear=3D"none">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 9, 2024, at 5:10=E2=80=AFPM, Andrew Deveni=
sh <<a href=3D"mailto:gt6racer@msn.com"; target=3D"_blank">gt6racer@msn.c=
om</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div></div><div id=3D"m_6963988662622049875yiv7136351215yqtfd49798">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF Hi Mike,
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The first question is a good one. T=
he car was built for autocross by a guy in Indiana who knew his stuff. Howe=
ver, I bought it from a guy who had bought it to run PIB, but knew nothing =
about race engines. He had run it lean and holed #4. He told
me he had not changed anything, but that is turning out not to be the case=
. (I suspect it holed the piston because I found he had fitted gros jets wi=
th the float level way too low).=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I rebuilt it to same mechanical spec. It r=
an great but a little lean on the AAU needles for road course, so I=E2=80=
=99m now on AAA. It still runs great, unless it doesn=E2=80=99t =F0=9F=98=
=81.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The car has had this issue since I built i=
t. At first I thought the obvious - float heights, needle/seat, regulator p=
ressure etc etc but while it always runs great I have this issues after a f=
ew =E2=80=9Claps=E2=80=9D.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 2) =C2=A0 The car had a Summit racing 3136 pump w=
hich has around 90GPH and an internal blow off at 7PSI, my regulator is at =
4 PSI. Today I had taken the pump apart and checked it but all looked OK. I=
fitted a cheap solenoid pump in its place. Issue still
there.</div>
<div>I had checked both the Summit and now the solenoid pump for flow, ther=
e is plenty.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 As I noted the float bowls are full when it quits=
running.</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 3) Great point - could be what I have. I know the fuel l=
evel in the jets is fine when not running, but a poor flow from bowl to jet=
would change that when running. My O2 is in the collector, so I can=E2=80=
=99t be sure if it=E2=80=99s both carbs or just one. All 4
plugs look very similar, but that is possible as this =E2=80=9Clean=E2=80=
=9D condition is only for a few cycles before it stops - not enough to colo=
r the plug. Will check when I can ( unfortunately a busy weekend coming up =
as I race sailboats too ). I=E2=80=99ve been thinking it
is heat related, but it could just as easily be time. When I tried to run =
autocross it started to play up after 10 or so seconds of full throttle (wh=
ich I can=E2=80=99t do in my yard). On autocross it would pull like crazy, =
then go very flat, and then come back on,
repeat. Your idea would do just that !=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4) always worth a check, but it would have to be somethi=
ng that shows up only when hot.=C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 5) yes, compression good. Between 220 and 225 for all, m=
easured on crank with throttles open.</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</div>
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks also to the other responses that I r=
eceived, I didn=E2=80=99t cc all on my replies in order to reduce the clutt=
er=E2=80=A6</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none" id=3D"m_6963988662622049875yiv7136351215lineBreakAt=
BeginningOfSignature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you,=C2=A0
<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andrew Devenish</div>
<div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Aug 9, 2024, at 3:51=E2=80=AFPM, Mike Harmuth =
<<a href=3D"mailto:ofracer@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">ofracer@gmail.co=
m</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Andrew, a couple of things to check.
<div>1st, is this a new problem? if so, what did you touch last?</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>2d Verify fuel flow, not just pressure=C2=A0i.e Gallons per hour? Disc=
onnect the fuel line at the carbs, and stick it into a 1 quart or one gallo=
n clean/clear bottle/jug. Turn the fuel pump on and time how long it takes =
to fill (1 Qt/ 1Gal whatever size container
you're using).=C2=A0 If you're getting more than 20 gallons per ho=
ur, the flow is OK. Set the bottle aside and let it settle out, look for pa=
rticles, rubber, fuel cell foam, dirt. If so, see where that's coming f=
rom. For example, old fuel cell foam will break down
and clog the intake. When the pump turns off, the fuel in the lines drops =
back flushing the intake clear until next time. Fuel filter clean? Fuel pre=
ssure reg OK? Not just holding pressure (I run 3.5 on my HS4s) but actually=
sending fuel down the line? The
gallons per hour test will indicate if you need to look into any of these =
areas, if you're gelling enough fuel, more down the list for now.</div>
<div>link to flow and fuel requirements chart=C2=A0<a rel=3D"nofollow noope=
ner noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://historicracinggroup.com/reso=
urces/Reference_Material/Canton/Fuel%20Consumption%20and%20Flow%20Quick%20R=
ef%20by%20CM%20Filters.pdf" target=3D"_blank">https://historicracinggroup.c=
om/resources/Reference_Material/Canton/Fuel%20Consumption%20and%20Flow%20Qu=
ick%20Ref%20by%20CM%20Filters.pdf</a></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>3. A problem I had with an identical=C2=A0set up, was rubber hose brea=
king down and settling into the little box shaped=C2=A0well in the carb bow=
l where the line to the jet connects. It's happened=C2=A0to me twice no=
w, last time was in June with fairly new hose feeding
the carbs. It restricted the flow to the jet, even though the bowl was ful=
l. At high load, not enough fuel could get past the blockage.</div>
<div>
<div><IMG_20240630_112925914.jpg></div>
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>4. Vacuum leak- Is there a crack or loose bolt on the intake manifold?=
With the engine running, spray carb cleaner around the manifold to block, =
carbs to manifold. A change in engine RPM means something was drawn in thro=
ugh a gap.<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>5. Compression check- Are all the cylinders within 5-10% of each other=
?</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Happy hunting</div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>mike h</div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, Aug 9, 2024 at 3:03=E2=80=AFPM Andrew Devenish via=
Fot <<a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mai=
lto:fot@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:=
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Guys, <br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 My car ( 1300, 12.5:1 comp on Sunoco 110=
race gas, dual HS4 ) is still giving me grief. I=E2=80=99ve chased all the=
things I can think of, but still same problem. It starts and runs great, b=
ut after a few laps of the yard ( 5-6, only 1000ft=C2=A0 or so per up/down
lap, so quick accels then braking to turn ) it goes very lean ( I have O2 =
sensor ) and stops. I=E2=80=99m running it without the hood for these test =
runs. It always stops at the entry to a turn.
<br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I=E2=80=99ve been working on it a lot, so=
know it has fuel pressure, and the float bowls are full of fuel. All plugs=
look very similar. The needles (AAA) are the spring type, and the slides m=
ove freely. I use ATF as fluid, but have tried 50 weight too.<br clear=3D"n=
one">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 After a minute or so it will fire back up, but =
only run enough to get back to the shop before going lean again. If I pull =
out the choke it will run, but is unstable.
<br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I have wrapped headers and a heat shield around =
the carbs but they do still get hot.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Any ideas ?=C2=A0 Thinking to try some less vola=
tile fuel as it seems heat related and the Sunoco evaporates so fast !<br c=
lear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Thank you, <br clear=3D"none">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andrew Devenish<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
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