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Ditto, though I use Quartermaster clutches. Other than a difference in =20=
initial expense I can't see a reason to use stock junk--at least not =20
for racing. I'd probably use stock stuff in a street car because it's =20=
probably easier on the transmission, and the passengers. The =20
quartermasters are not cheap, though the bottom of the line V-Drive =20
unit isn't all that bad and is just a strong as the fancy one I run, =20
but pulling your engine one extra time would seem to justify the =20
expense. I probably spent more money trying to get stock clutches to =20
work than I have since I switched. I did manage to screw up my =20
Quartermaster, but that was a stupid error on my part, and it still =20
worked for 12 more race weekends before failing.
On Aug 27, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Don Marshall wrote:
> My experience with the Tilton has been the same as Johns, no =20
> problems. It came with the car and is probably the original setup =20
> from when Jack Wheeler had it. Don
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fot-bounces@autox.team.net [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] =20=
> On Behalf Of John Reed
> Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 11:46 AM
> To: Joe N197TR4; henry@henryfrye.com; lfritz82@hotmail.com; =
fot@autox.team.net
> Subject: Re: [Fot] LUK clutches
>
> I=92ve been using a Tilton setup for over 20 years with no problems. =20=
> It is a dual disk that came as a package set with the flywheel. The =20=
> pressure plates and flywheel have little #1s stamped on them for =20
> proper assembly. Very nice, probably the nicest thing on my car. I =20
> replace the disks every 5 or 6 years if they need it or not. Even =20
> when I switched to a 240z trans. all I had to do was change to 9 =20
> spline disks.
>
>
> On 8/27/08 9:12 AM, "N197TR4@cs.com" <N197TR4@cs.com> wrote:
> FoT,
>
> No surprise, but in the past few years the low volume stuff has been =20=
> farmed out to low cost suppliers. Including LuK. My clutch friends =20=
> say that this business has changed consderable. You wont know what =20
> you are getting, regardless of the label.
>
> One of the businesses I got involved with John Deere was =20
> remanufactured clutch components. It doesnt make me an expert on the =20=
> design of clutches, but it gave me some good insight in the business =20=
> side.
>
> Rebuilding a good old unit is preferable and the materials are =20
> frequently superior. Same goes for discs. I just provided one for a =20=
> TR3 and ot had apparently superior friction materials and all of the =20=
> springs replaced.
>
> But now there may be a forthcoming shortage of these materials. .....
>
> Henry, If you still have that core, I'll see what I can do. It may =20=
> end up being better than new and far less expensive. Nothing will =20
> happen until this winter, but I am sure that is OK with you.
>
> Joe A
>
>
>
> There have been at least 3 LuK clutch pressure plate failures in =20
> racers
> that I can document this year. All were about 5 years of racing use.
> Look at the 3 metal straps that hold the part that engages the =20
> friction
> disk to the outer shell. Mine broke at the rivet and would not
> disengage. Leo's developed a nasty vibration. Tony's started slipping.
>
> Also George's Borg and Beck failed, throwing a little chunk that could
> not escape the bellhousing until it made a hole big enough to escape.
> Scratch that gearbox case...
>
> There have been way too many gearbox pulls in the paddock this season
> because of clutches... Also having a new clutch kit ready to go in the
> race spares is a very good idea.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
>
> Regards,
> John Reed
> Global Staff Photographer
> Creative Services
>
> Wilson Sporting Goods Co.
> 8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA
> Tel. + 1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585
>
> John.Reed@wilson.com www.wilson.com www.amersports.com
>
>
>
> This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. =20=
> If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail =20=
> in error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-=20
> mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the =20
> material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.team.net/donate.html
>
> Fot mailing list
> Fot@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot
>
Bill Babcock
Babcock & Jenkins
Billb@bnj.com
503.936.7660
www.bnj.com
Editor
Ke Nalu e-Magazine
Paddlesurfing's Web Journal
Bill@kenalu.com
www.kenalu.com
blog: www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Ditto, though I use =
Quartermaster clutches. Other than a difference in initial expense I =
can't see a reason to use stock junk--at least not for racing. I'd =
probably use stock stuff in a street car because it's probably easier on =
the transmission, and the passengers. The quartermasters are not =
cheap, though the bottom of the line V-Drive unit isn't all that bad and =
is just a strong as the fancy one I run, but pulling your engine one =
extra time would seem to justify the expense. I probably spent more =
money trying to get stock clutches to work than I have since I switched. =
I did manage to screw up my Quartermaster, but that was a stupid =
error on my part, and it still worked for 12 more race weekends before =
failing. <div><br><div><div>On Aug 27, 2008, at 9:05 AM, Don =
Marshall wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: =
separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; =
font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; =
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: =
auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" =
vlink=3D"blue"><div class=3D"Section1"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: black; =
">My experience with the Tilton has been the same as<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font =
color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color: black; ">John</span></font><font =
color=3D"black"><span style=3D"color: black; ">s, no problems. It =
came with the car and is probably the original setup from when Jack =
Wheeler had it. Don</span></font></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" color=3D"black" face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; color: black; =
"> </span></font></p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; ">-----Original =
Message-----<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; =
">From:</span></b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a =
href=3D"mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net</a>]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span =
style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>John =
Reed<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, August 27, 2008 =
11:46 AM<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Joe N197TR4;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:henry@henryfrye.com"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">henry@henryfrye.com</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:lfritz82@hotmail.com"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">lfritz82@hotmail.com</a>;<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a =
href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">fot@autox.team.net</a><br><b><span =
style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Fot] LUK =
clutches</span></font></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-top: =
0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
"> </span></font></p><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: =
0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Verdana"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; ">I=92ve been using a =
Tilton setup for over 20 years with no problems. It is a dual disk that =
came as a package set with the flywheel. The pressure plates and =
flywheel have little #1s stamped on them for proper assembly. Very nice, =
probably the nicest thing on my car. I replace the disks every 5 or 6 =
years if they need it or not. Even when I switched to a 240z trans. all =
I had to do was change to 9 spline disks.<br><br><br>On 8/27/08 9:12 AM, =
"<a href=3D"mailto:N197TR4@cs.com"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">N197TR4@cs.com</a>" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:N197TR4@cs.com"; style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">N197TR4@cs.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Arial; ">FoT,<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>No surprise, but in =
the past few years the low volume stuff has been farmed out to low cost =
suppliers. Including LuK. My clutch friends say that this =
business has changed consderable. You wont know what you are getting, =
regardless of the label.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>One of the =
businesses I got involved with John Deere was remanufactured clutch =
components. It doesnt make me an expert on the design of clutches, but =
it gave me some good insight in the business side.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Rebuilding a good =
old unit is preferable and the materials are frequently superior. Same =
goes for discs. I just provided one for a TR3 and ot had =
apparently superior friction materials and all of the springs replaced. =
<br><br>But now there may be a forthcoming shortage of these =
materials. .....<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Henry, If you =
still have that core, I'll see what I can do. It may end up being better =
than new and far less expensive. Nothing will happen until this winter, =
but I am sure that is OK with you.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Joe A<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br><br><br></span></font=
></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: =
0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; =
font-family: Arial; ">There have been at least 3 LuK clutch pressure =
plate failures in racers<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>that I can document =
this year. All were about 5 years of racing use.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Look at the 3 metal =
straps that hold the part that engages the friction<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>disk to the outer =
shell. Mine broke at the rivet and would not<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>disengage. Leo's =
developed a nasty vibration. Tony's started slipping.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>Also George's Borg =
and Beck failed, throwing a little chunk that could<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>not escape the =
bellhousing until it made a hole big enough to escape.<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>Scratch that gearbox =
case...<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><br>There =
have been way too many gearbox pulls in the paddock this season<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>because of clutches... =
Also having a new clutch kit ready to go in the<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>race spares is a very =
good idea.</span></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" =
face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; =
"><br></span></font><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Arial"><span =
style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial; "><br></span></font><font =
size=3D"1" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
Verdana; "> </span></font></div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" =
align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align: center; margin-top: 0in; =
margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: =
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" =
face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: Verdana; =
"><hr size=3D"3" width=3D"95%" align=3D"center"></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: =
7.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; =
">_______________________________________________<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br><br>Fot mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Fot@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">Fot@autox.team.net</a><br><a =
href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot"; style=3D"color: =
blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot</a></span></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; =
margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New =
Roman'; "><font size=3D"1" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D"font-size: =
7.5pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><br><br></span></font><font =
size=3D"1" face=3D"Verdana"><span style=3D"font-size: 9pt; font-family: =
Verdana; ">Regards,<br>John Reed<br>Global Staff =
Photographer<br>Creative Services<br> <br>Wilson Sporting Goods =
Co.<br>8750 W Bryn Mawr Ave, Chicago, Illinois 60631, USA<br>Tel. + =
1.773.714.6895, fax +1.773.714.4585<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:John.Reed@wilson.com"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">John.Reed@wilson.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span> <a =
href=3D"http://www.wilson.com"; style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline; ">www.wilson.com</a><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span> <a =
href=3D"http://www.amersports.com"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">www.amersports.com</a><br> <br><br></span></font><br>This e-mail =
may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not =
the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please =
notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any unauthorized =
copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is =
strictly =
forbidden.</div></div>_______________________________________________<br><=
a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; =
">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br><br>Fot mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Fot@autox.team.net"; style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline; ">Fot@autox.team.net</a><br><a =
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blue; text-decoration: underline; =
">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/fot</a><br><br></div></span></blo=
ckquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: =
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auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
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style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"color:=
rgb(118, 15, 79); font-size: 16px; ">Bill Babcock</span></div><div><div =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: =
break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; "><div>Babcock & Jenkins</div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:Billb@bnj.com";>Billb@bnj.com</a></div><div>503.936.7660</di=
v><div><a href=3D"http://www.bnj.com";>www.bnj.com</a></div><div><br =
class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Editor</font></div><div><font=
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000">Ke Nalu =
e-Magazine</font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
color=3D"#010000"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; =
"><i>Paddlesurfing's Web =
Journal</i></span></font></font></div><div><font =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#010000" size=3D"3"><span =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><i><br =
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href=3D"mailto:Bill@kenalu.com";>Bill@kenalu.com</a></div><div><a =
href=3D"http://www.kenalu.com";>www.kenalu.com</a></div><div>blog: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog";>www.ponohouse.com/ponoblog</a><=
/div></div></div></div></div></div></span></div></span></div></span> =
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_______________________________________________
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