The difference will be more than $2k on the street for at least the rest of
this year. The S isn't even available yet, and the waiting list is much
longer despite the fact that there are fewer S models than Coopers. Expect
festive gouging.
What I got on delivery was as follows:
-Only Coopers are available now, and only pre-specced (no special orders
yet)
-The current pre-specced cars have very few options (I'm surprised by this).
They seem to have foglights and a couple other things and sticker at ~$17k.
-The guy told me there will be pre-specced cars with the Sport suspension +
coming in a couple months, then special orders will begin a few months after
that.
-The Cooper S will be for sale in July or something like that, and follow
the same pattern.
Bottom line is you can get a Cooper much sooner and much cheaper than an S.
I would definitely wait until I could get one with the Sport suspension and
seats without much other crap though, both those options seemed to be worth
waiting for plus when they become available the initial hype may have died
down a tad.
BTW I have no plans to buy one of these things any time soon. After
borrowing Travis' Spyder after the school on Saturday, I think I know where
my next non-existent $25k is going:)
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Merritt [mailto:CMerritt@luminous.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:52 PM
To: 'Alan Gruner'; Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}; 'james creasy';
ba-autox@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: Let's Talk Minis...
Hmmm...well, from all the comments it looks like the non-S with sports seats
& "sport plus" suspension (same as on the S), and as few other options (I.E.
weight) as humanly possible would be the way to go, and it's a good $2K
cheaper than a similarly equipped S. I'll have to pester the local dealers
and try to find an S to test drive to be sure...
Alan, you want to co-drive next season if I get one? ;-)
-Carl
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Gruner [mailto:algruner@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 1:29 PM
> To: Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}; 'james creasy'; 'Carl Merritt';
> ba-autox@autox.team.net
> Subject: RE: Let's Talk Minis...
>
>
> It is hard enough to keep up with the Focuses. I've
> been thinking about retiring my Civic from HS at the
> end of this season. This is helping me make up my
> mind.
>
> On paper it looks like a good competition. The 5th
> generation Civic Si is officially listed as 2326 lbs
> and has 125 hp. Unfortunately, it only came with those
> wonderful Honda spec 14x5 wheels and "Sport"
> suspension that is sporty by 70's Renault standards.
>
> Alan
>
> --- "Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}"
> <PETER.THANA@ROCHE.COM> wrote:
> > According to Mark Chiles, who just bought one, the
> > owners manual quotes
> > weight for the base Cooper as 2480 with a full tank
> > of gas and a driver of
> > unspecified weight. That should equate to a full
> > tank weight of ~2300 and a
> > fighting weight a good bit under that.
> >
> > For reference the second gen CRX Si had a curb
> > weight of 2178 lbs and 108
> > hp. And that car is classed in GS. The light one
> > was the first gen, which
> > weighed ~1900lbs but had only 91hp. All three cars
> > are quoted as 8.5
> > seconds 0-60, and I bet you could take off a few
> > tenths from that with those
> > rubber band Hoosiers.
> >
> > As long as Brake Assist or other funky BMW
> > technology doesn't up screw the
> > car up for autox, it actually matches up decently
> > with some of the proven
> > speed maintenance cars in GS like the CRX and the
> > old Celica ST. Of course
> > it's too early to tell, but all indications look
> > like it should be a great
> > bet for HS, maybe too good!
> >
> > Peter
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: james creasy [mailto:Black94PGT@pacbell.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 9:54 AM
> > To: Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}; 'Carl Merritt';
> > ba-autox@autox.team.net
> > Subject: Re: Let's Talk Minis...
> >
> >
> > >It's sort of like a modern day CRX, light and
> > nimble but without a
> > > lot of power.
> >
> > the mini cooper as a modern day CRX? words i
> > thought id never hear!!! :)
> > its quite a bit heavier though.
> >
> > sounds like a super h-stock car.
> >
> > -james c
> > OSP - Overbearing Snake Presence
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thana, Peter {High~Palo Alto}"
> > <PETER.THANA@ROCHE.COM>
> > To: "'Carl Merritt'" <CMerritt@luminous.com>;
> > <ba-autox@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 11:42 AM
> > Subject: RE: Let's Talk Minis...
> >
> >
> > > Hi Carl,
> > >
> > > Sean O'Boyle and I had a chance to drive a Cooper
> > at Mini of Mt. View last
> > > week. They are neat little cars, and pretty much
> > everything you've heard
> > > about the handling is true so far- very responsive
> > steering and a solid
> > > chassis. We felt the Cooper was a bit
> > underpowered, especially in the low
> > > end. Granted we had 3 people in the car, but
> > pulling away from normal
> > > right-turn-on-green speed in 2nd gear resulted
> > in... bog. Our conclusion
> > > was that for the street you might be better off
> > with the S, although they
> > > are not giving out test drives in them yet.
> > >
> > > Autox is a different story. I still believe after
> > driving the car that
> > the
> > > base Cooper will be the car to have for HS. I've
> > heard weight figures
> > > closer to 23xx pounds for the base Cooper. With
> > the optional Sport
> > > Suspension Plus, the car will have much stiffer
> > springs than anything in
> > its
> > > class. The Cooper is not available with 17"
> > wheels as a factory option,
> > but
> > > comes standard with 15s and has optional 16x6.5
> > rims. Shod those with the
> > > current 205 Kumhos or the new 215/40/16 Hoosiers
> > and you have a wheel tire
> > > package superior to anything in GS, let alone HS.
> > An additional bonus is
> > > that the rubber band Hoosiers will dramatically
> > shorten the gearing, which
> > > is something the car desperately needs.
> > >
> > > The Cooper S will be a big unknown for DS until
> > someone sets one up and
> > > tries it. The chassis has great potential, but
> > that class is already full
> > > of very strong cars like the Integra Type R and
> > the IS300.
> > >
> > > I really wanted to love the base Cooper, because
> > I've always had good luck
> > > with the lesser of two models (Z3 2.8 Coupe vs.
> > the ///M and my non-turbo
> > > MR2). It's sort of like a modern day CRX, light
> > and nimble but without a
> > > lot of power. Also while the MSRP spread of the 2
> > models isn't that
> > large,
> > > it will be much harder/more expensive to buy a
> > Cooper S for the next year
> > at
> > > least. Having driven just the Cooper, I'd have to
> > say that the S has more
> > > fun potential for day to day driving though. The
> > Cooper may be a better
> > bet
> > > for stock class autox, but then again if it is too
> > good I can see that car
> > > getting bumped to GS before year's end.
> > >
> > > Peter
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Carl Merritt [mailto:CMerritt@luminous.com]
> > > Sent: Sunday, April 07, 2002 9:50 PM
> > > To: 'ba-autox@autox.team.net'
> > > Subject: Let's Talk Minis...
> > >
> > >
> > > So I'm seriously thinking about selling my Golf
> > TDI for a new Mini.
> > Anybody
> > > have one yet or have one on order? Anybody seen
> > any come out to play at
> > an
> > > Autocross yet? Any guesses on weather the NA or S
> > version will be more
> > > competitive in their respective classes?
> > >
> > > For reference, the normally aspirated Mini has a
> > 115HP/110ft-lb motor and
> > > weighs 2500lbs, and according to MiniUSA does a
> > 0-60 in 8.5 seconds. The
> > S
> > > is 163HP/155ft-lbs and 2700lbs, and goes to 60 in
> > 6.9 seconds. They both
> > > have the same wheel options available (17x7 being
> > the largest), same sport
> > > suspension and seat options, but the S has a
> > 6-speed. The S is in
> > D-Stock,
> > > the NA is in H-Stock.
> > >
> > > More food for thought here:
> > http://www.miniusa.com/
> > >
> > > Anybody?
> > >
> > > -Carl
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