[WPTA] 1500 Spitfire oil pump install

Fri Jul 14 14:22:53 MDT 2023

 Tim,
Look in your repair manual page 12-1.  This should be the first page in the Engine section.  Look at the picture in the lower right corner of page 12-1.  That picture shows three parts.  1. the top is the gear and slot that the distributer fits into.  This is one part.  The gear is turned by a gear on the camshaft.  2. The lower shaft fits into the oil pump.  This is the oil pump drive and it is connected to the top part with a pin through the upper area of the shaft.  The little circle on the left side of the shaft just above the gear in the photo represents the pin that holds the two parts together.  3.  There is a washer below gear.
Don't remove the part (2 pieces as described above) with the gear as it needs to be put back in the exact position that it was removed.  The procedure is explained on page 12-2 starting with step #11. 
So looking back at the photo on page 12-1, you can see where we are confused.  The only fixed collar that I can see would be the washer.  But if the lower shaft (#2 above) is in place then there is no way that could move out of place.  Likewise I don't think the oil pump shaft would even reach that washer ever if the lower shaft (#2 above) was in place..
Is the lower shaft (#2 above) still in place or did it come out when you removed the oil pump?
Also email me any pictures that you have as my flip phone doesn't do a very good job of showing pictures.
Hope that helps.
Gary
    On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 01:26:53 PM EDT, Tim Prell <tjprell at gmail.com> wrote:  

 Appreciate the feedback but the problem truly is about this lower unit housing shifting somehow and not allowing the oil pump rotor shaft to slide up and into a corresponding fixed collar where the gear below the distributor sits. I have tried to include better pics to illustrate. I have pulled the distributor to merely confirm this problem. The rotor shaft should slide up until almost flush with the top of this housing to meet the bottom blade of the dizzy gear assembly.
Anyone know how this lower assembly is attached?
Tim
On Wednesday, July 5, 2023, Bruce Stutzman <stutztr4 at gmail.com> wrote:

TimIf you haven't already done so, draw a line with a marker down the dizzy amd mount so you can put it together as you got it.

On Tue, Jul 4, 2023 at 8:59 PM jerryvvtr4a--- via Wpta <wpta at autox.team.net> wrote:

I’d pull the distributor and see if the pump will then fit. And then place the distributor back into the engine.

JVV

From: Wpta <wpta-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Gary Fredo via Wpta
Sent: Tuesday, July 4, 2023 3:27 PM
To: WPTA <wpta at autox.team.net>; Tim Prell <tjprell at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [WPTA] 1500 Spitfire oil pump install

>From looking at the repair manual and parts manual it looks like it should slide right in.  It's been a long time since I've had an oil pump out of a Spitfire engine.  Probably 30 years so mostly going by memory which isn't too good.  Anyway, you mentioned below that "nothing was moved or loosened at the distributor".  Actually you spun the camshaft and the distributor when you spun the crankshaft.  I think the oil pump shaft slot (at the bottom of the distributor) is slightly off center so you may have to spin the oil pump shaft 180 degrees to get them to line up.  That's about all I can think of right now.

Hope that helps.

Gary 

On Tuesday, July 4, 2023 at 12:48:12 PM EDT, Tim Prell via Wpta <wpta at autox.team.net> wrote: 

I started the process of replacing thrust washers in my 77 Spitfire this spring and after encouragement from a Triumph Spitfire restoration and support forum, also tried replacing main bearings and rod bearings in place.(for better or worse). In order to access the mid-crank rod bearing bolts, I removed the oil pump (cover plate, inner rotor, outer rotor shaft assembly). Now that all the work is complete and the engine spins as expected, the oil pump inner rotor and shaft will not slide fully back into place - it fits into its slot but stops at ~ 1 - 1.5" from fully inserted. 

I can see the slot at the end of the distributor assembly and a second opening in a plate for the inner rotor and shaft to slip through which must be blocking the shaft. The inner rotor shaft assembly spins easily. Any ideas on what can be displaced that won't allow the shaft to completely slide into place would be helpful. Nothing was moved or loosened at the distributor - I only worked on the lower end to replace thrust washers and main plus rod bearings. Some pics attached.

thanks for feedback (at least serious feedback :-).

Tim

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