[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem

Roger Elliott elliottr at rmi.net
Wed Nov 13 14:32:45 MST 2019


Thanks everyone,

I will do some more investigating.  I should mention that the lights 
just kind of flicker so it is not real obvious.

Thanks again,
Roger

On 11/13/2019 9:20 AM, David Friedlander wrote:
> Doesn't Moss sell tail light bulb holders with grounding tabs?
>
> https://mossmotors.com/bulb-holder-turn-reverse
>
> Dave
>
> image.png
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2019 at 12:15 AM Brian Kemp <bk13 at earthlink.net 
> <mailto:bk13 at earthlink.net>> wrote:
>
>     I seem to remember once upon a time, somebody made a light socket
>     with a ground wire or a ground tab.  I looked a few months ago for
>     my GT6, but couldn't find it at the usual vendors.  I imagine you
>     could add a ground wire, but some of my sockets are pretty bad, so
>     I was looking for new ones that already had the wire.
>
>     On my TR6, I did have a socket that didn't conduct well to
>     ground.  The problem was the connection between the metal base and
>     the metal fingers.  I just hit the area with a wire brush in the
>     Dremel then soldered the two bits together and it fixed that problem.
>
>     Brian
>
>     On 11/12/2019 2:38 PM, Roger Elliott wrote:
>>
>>     I decided to give up on the issue.
>>
>>     There did not seem to be much of a voltage drop across the
>>     battery - about .05 volts as near as I could make out.  It's
>>     possible that either the meter or myself were not quick enough to
>>     read accurately.
>>
>>     As far as I could tell there is not a ground terminal on the
>>     sockets.  There was about .009 volts between the lamp housing and
>>     the battery.  I did run additional wires from the lamp housing to
>>     a ground (to the tank mounting bolts).
>>
>>     The brake/tail lights still varied with the turn signals, in
>>     opposition, got brighter when the turn signals were off.
>>
>>     Tested the lights with regular brake lights instead of LEDs. I
>>     noticed the brake/tail lights still varied with the turn
>>     signals.  This is when I decided to give up and just live with it.
>>
>>     Oh, the third brake light that I have wired in - power from the
>>     brake lights and grounded to the body flash when ever the brake
>>     lights and turn signals are on (like the brake/tail lights in
>>     opposition.
>>
>>     Thanks for your help.
>>     Roger
>>
>>     On 11/3/2019 4:37 PM, Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>     Yes, that’s the idea.  You want all the lights on (including
>>>     turn signals) during this test.
>>>
>>>     What you’re looking at is how much voltage drop there is through
>>>     the ground path.
>>>
>>>     -- Randall
>>>
>>>     *From: *Roger Elliott <mailto:elliottr at rmi.net>
>>>     *Sent: *Sunday, November 3, 2019 1:26 PM
>>>     *To: *triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
>>>     *Subject: *Re: [TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
>>>
>>>     HI Randall,
>>>
>>>     Thanks for the information and the tests.
>>>
>>>     I just want to check something on the tests since my electrical
>>>     trouble shooting ability is very limited.
>>>
>>>     This section is also done with the lights on, right?:
>>>
>>>     To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to the
>>>     negative battery terminal or negative starter cable, so you can
>>>     connect the ground lead of your DMM to that.  Then you can probe
>>>     at the rear lights, to see how well they are actually grounded. 
>>>     0.2 volt is probably acceptable, anything more than that
>>>     represents a problem that could be fixed.
>>>
>>>
>>>     Thanks,
>>>     Roger
>>>
>>>     On 11/2/19 4:07 PM, Randall wrote:
>>>
>>>         There may not be a good solution, Roger.  The incandescent
>>>         turn signals draw a fair amount of current, which is likely
>>>         more than the stock alternator can deliver (along with tail
>>>         lights and so on) at idle.  So it may be that the battery
>>>         voltage is dropping from 13+ volts (alternator supplying all
>>>         power to car) to 12.6 volts (battery supplying some of the
>>>         power) and the LEDs you’re using are sensitive enough to
>>>         show the difference in voltage.
>>>
>>>         To check, connect a good voltmeter or DMM to the battery,
>>>         then watch what it does when the tail lights and flashers
>>>         are both on.  If I’m right, you’ll see the battery voltage
>>>         sag in time with the turn signals.  The only fix would be to
>>>         convert to a more modern alternator, that can keep up with
>>>         the lights at idle.  (I’m not certain, but I think there is
>>>         a Lester unit that would look and fit the same as the stock
>>>         Lucas but give more current across the board. Check with the
>>>         Jaguar folks.)
>>>
>>>         Another fix might be LEDs that use an active current source
>>>         (so are much less sensitive to supply voltage), but I have
>>>         no idea where to buy such things.  I made my own using a
>>>         simple 2-transistor active current limiter.
>>>
>>>         To check for grounding issues, I suggest running a wire to
>>>         the negative battery terminal or negative starter cable, so
>>>         you can connect the ground lead of your DMM to that.  Then
>>>         you can probe at the rear lights, to see how well they are
>>>         actually grounded.  0.2 volt is probably acceptable,
>>>         anything more than that represents a problem that could be
>>>         fixed.
>>>
>>>         I’m not sure how the TR250 tail lights are wired.  On my
>>>         TR3, all the rear lamps ground only through their mounting
>>>         screws, which go into clip nuts fastened to the sheet metal.
>>>         Very insecure, especially if the sheet metal has a fresh
>>>         coat of paint.
>>>
>>>         However, each lamp has a terminal inside the housing for a
>>>         ground wire. So, I made up a ground wire that daisy-chains
>>>         across all the rear lamp holders, then leads around the
>>>         trunk to one of the fuel tank mounting bolts.
>>>
>>>         -- Randall
>>>
>>>         *From: *Roger Elliott <mailto:elliottr at rmi.net>
>>>         *Sent: *Friday, November 1, 2019 12:50 PM
>>>         *To: *triumphs at autox.team.net <mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>
>>>         *Subject: *[TR] TR250 LED tail light problem
>>>
>>>         Here's the problem.  When the tail lights are on and I use
>>>         the flasher,
>>>
>>>         the tail/brake lights flicker with the flasher.  They don't
>>>         go on and
>>>
>>>         off but the get brighter and dimmer.  When the third brake
>>>         light is
>>>
>>>         hooked up it does the same thing.
>>>
>>
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