[TR] MGA

Fri Jul 19 08:36:42 MDT 2019

Thanks Greg - that certainly explains the two MGA looking cars in that photo in 1951.

Rye

On July 18, 2019 at 9:13 AM, Greg Lemon <grglmn at gmail.com> wrote:

MGA Prototype, EX172 based on the MG TD.   http://www.classiccarportraits.co.uk/pages2/MG_EX172_1951.htm

raced by MG at LeMans.

Triumphs and MGs did not generally  race in the same class SCCA in the 50s, though they would often be in the same combined class for races.  Here is the most comprehensive site I know of for fifties and sixties (the best!) sports car racing http://www.maseratiexperts.com/SCCA%20results%20test%20page.htm don't know why this doesn't show up as a link, but worked when I copied and pasted, scroll down for entry fields and results by year.

Of interest in 1968 the TR250 was very competitive with the then 2 liter 911 in C production SCCA, but they could not quite get it done in the championship race

Greg Lemon
TR250

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 6:59 PM TeriAnn J. Wakeman <tjwakeman at gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/17/19 4:43 PM, EDWARD WOODS wrote:
Well, in 1951 the TR2 hadn't been invented. But then, neither had the MGA. So what's wrong here? The year?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=p2qrOg8COx8
Relevant section starts at 8:00 minutes

Ed
On July 17, 2019 at 3:26 PM Rye Livingston <ryel at mac.com> wrote: 

I don't know the racing history of the two cars together, but the racing heritage of Porsche out performing bigger horsepower cars is legendary.  It all started with a 356 in 1951 when Porsche entered Le Mans with a 1.1 liter car.  The link below is to a fantastic video of the restoration of that car.  At 2:30 minute mark into the video is a still photo from the race, and you can see two MGAs in the photo, but I don't see a Triumph.  It was the smallest engine in the race, and they won the race, and that started Porsche racing.  If they had lost or not done well, history of Porsche would have been changed.

The rest of the video is pretty cool how they found the car, through years of research they were able to verify it was the car that won Le Mans, and then they did an amazing job to restore it.  The CEO of Kettle potato chips, he is the owner of the car.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/classic-cars/a20652380/1951-porsche-356-sl-le-mans-restoration/

On July 17, 2019 at 10:16 AM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote: 

Cool.  Thanks, Rye.  That's sort of what I'm asking.  Engine size can be made up by gear ratios, OD's, cams, and so on.  So the Spyder was 500 cc's smaller than a Triumph, but significantly outperformed?
On July 17, 2019 at 12:30 PM Rye Livingston <ryel at mac.com> wrote: 

One correction, James Dean died in a 550 Porsche Spyder, one of only 90 produced, not a Speedster.  It had a 1.5 liter engine, but it was a Carrera engine with twin overhead cams, two separate ignition manifolds and two ignition coils.  It was also a mid engine design like the 914 and the current Boxter and Cayman.  So this car isn't comparable to a Triumph or MGA of that era.

Rye 
1960 TR3A
1963 356
1968 912
1988 911 Carrera

On July 16, 2019 at 4:48 PM, TERRY SMITH <terryrs at comcast.net> wrote: 

Hmmm.  So looking quickly other street cars of the time, a 1959 Porsche 356 A had a 1.6 liter engine; I don't know about the Porsche "speedster" or even if it was different, other than James Dean died in one.  The 1959 MGA had a 1.6 liter.  The Jaguar XK 150 had a 3.8 liter engine.  Karmann Ghia had between a 1.1 and 1.3 liter engine.  As far as I can tell the Fiat 850 started in 1964, with an engine a single strong man could seemingly lift.  The Sunbeam Alpine was a 1.5 liter.  The Austin Martin DB4 was 3.7 liters.  Couldn't quickly find the big Healeys four and six cylinder engines.  The Bugeye Sprite was a 0.948 liter; my sister called it her putt-putt.  Triumphs and Morgans, of course, ran the same 2 liter engine.

All this said, and certainly subject to any corrections you might have, I remain unsure how Triumphs stacked up in races against these.  Anybody?

Terry
On July 16, 2019 at 5:40 PM Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com> wrote: 

110 mph in 4th OD is only 4500 rpm.  Not what I call “crank shattering rpm”.  A stock TR3 won’t usually run that fast of course, but 87mm liners were actually cheaper than 83s, back in the 70s.  (I actually found a set that had been returned to Warshawski’s in Chicago, better known as JC Whitney, for even less than the usual price.)

And I’ve run 4500 for literally hours without a problem.  (Speed enforcement in the desert tends to be lax ðŸ˜Š )

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: TERRY SMITH
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 1:47 PM
To: Randall
Cc: Triumphs
Subject: Re: [TR] MGA

That reminds me.  When I say my TR3 "keeps up with traffic," I'm referencing traffic on the freeway here (tollway, rather) that clips along between 70 and 80 mph.  I've been curious about the various cruising speeds and power performances of TR3's and their competition back in the day, cruising that is without winding up to crank shattering rpm's.  Anybody familiar with that? 

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