[TR] Paint code

[Stan Foster]

John, if you still have that  article I bet I’m not the only one that would like to see it. This was an important time for Triumph and the British car industry and the role that returning servicemen and women played a role would be of interest to me.

Stan

From: John Macartney <John.Macartney at Ukpips.org.uk>
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 4:46 PM
To: Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com>
Cc: Stan Foster <stan at redtr6.com>; triumphs at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code

Makes me laugh sometimes when this lore comes back. Ye gods, Standard could afford to provide a one armed war wounded man a paintbrush!!!
What so many over the pond continuously fail to appreciate when it comes to the wet liner four pot is that the block was common to many different uses. The basic block appeared in the TR, Vanguard, Ensign, Leyland 15 and 20 later on and in differing sizes for industrial applications. One basic block, many different engine types! The “paint codes, colours and shapes” were worked out by engine assembly people in line with engine build sheets. They knew what they were doing and as long as the correct unit was built, no one else worried.
The story about Sir John Black and returning servicemen is another affair of equal import. I wrote it out for TVT some years ago but someone chopped lumps out of it and I vetoed the print because it gave a rather different and by no means as comprehensive account, and skewed the narrative to Black’s disadvantage.

Jonmac
Sent from my iPad

On 10 Feb 2019, at 16:34, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com<mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com>> wrote:
My April 1962 TR3B’s engine’s marshaling marks were brushed for sure.

On Sunday, February 10, 2019, Stan Foster <stan at redtr6.com<mailto:stan at redtr6.com>> wrote:
The few that I have seen personally have a brushed appearance. ¾ inch wide, coarse brush. A one armed man can still use a brush.

Stan

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:25 AM
To: Lawarence Schwartz <L1j1s at aol.com<mailto:L1j1s at aol.com>>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code

Perhaps our forum friend John Macartney canl come in with more and better information, but Sir John Black made a real commitment to disabled war vets.  S-T found productive work for many, for years and years.  It wouldn't surprise me at all that one of those positions was marking engines.

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 7:06 AM Lawarence Schwartz <L1j1s at aol.com<mailto:L1j1s at aol.com>> wrote:
With reference to the Tr3 engine  block markings I remember reading several years ago along with having conversations a Tr gatherings that at the end of the engine production line there was one employee with only one arm and he was responsible for writing TR 3 using just one finger which he zipped into the orange red paint and scribbled the markings on the engine block. Larry Schwartz
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 18, 2019, at 12:44 AM, wbeech <wbeech at flash.net<mailto:wbeech at flash.net>> wrote:
Great picture Don, I have always re-painted the orange “TR3” after an engine rebuild, used Chevrolet engine orange.  Had never seen the china marker markings before.
Bill

From: Triumphs [mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Don Hiscock
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 5:47 PM
To: John Macartney <John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk<mailto:John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk>>; Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code

Here's an image of the Coventry assembly line taken by a member of the tour group on Triumph USA's 1958 Rally of Europe for new owners who took their delivery at the factory and toured the Continent.  One can see some of the various marshalling marks on the engines ready to be used on the line.
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-b5KrzK2/0/86ac2744/O/i-b5KrzK2.jpg

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 5:38 PM John Macartney <John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk<mailto:John.Macartney at ukpips.org.uk>> wrote:
Thing is Jack, that this far down the track, no one knows! In fact, I doubt the majority of people at the factory did either:)

Cheers, John
Sent from my iPad

On 17 Jan 2019, at 17:50, Jack McGahey <McGaheyRx at aol.com<mailto:McGaheyRx at aol.com>> wrote:
I have those markings on my TR6 block - reapplied after engine rebuild during restoration.

I can’t speak about TRA, but I can say that neither VTR or 6-pack look for these markings, or deduct for their absence, during Concours judging - and I’ve never heard anybody say they knew what they meant or why they are there.

Cheers,
Jack Mc
Sent from my iPad

On Jan 17, 2019, at 9:27 AM, John Macartney <john.macartney at ukpips.org.uk<mailto:john.macartney at ukpips.org.uk>> wrote:
Jim

In the rebuild of your car, did you by chance find any obscure markings in yellow or white chinagraph chalk on the engine block? These were common identifiers used at the factory that were understood by those who worked in engine assembly – but no-one else. Primarily, the mark was to distinguish the machined but unassembled block as being an ultimate engine for a North America spec car. Not all the blocks had these marks but I do know many others have encountered them years later and wondered what the hell they were. Being anxious to replicate what had been there after re-painting the block, they replaced the code. I’d be very surprised if TRA or VTR have extra marks in their judging books – or even deduct marks if they weren’t there.

Cheers, Jonmac

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.teamnet<mailto:triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net>> On Behalf Of Jim Henningsen
Sent: 17 January 2019 12:31
To: wbeech at flash.net<mailto:wbeech at flash.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net<mailto:triumphs at autox.team.net>>
Subject: Re: [TR] Paint code

Bill:
I have the TRA judging guide for the TR4 and have been using it as my plumb line for the restoration going back to 2010 when I purchased the car.  The trick is what to tell the auto paint store for a color to match that would be acceptable to judges.  My goal isn’t to beat everyone in a concours but to faithfully recreate the car as it was born.  I am not interested in trophies.  Over the 8 years restoring this car, s I have sometimes found it hard to get info from the expert judges and respected restorers of these cars. I’d love to know more specifics on the color and or source that experts in TRA think correct.  Also, I heard Macy’s Garage had an early TR4at the last TRA event.  Does anyone have any detailed photos of that car they could share.  The few I saw looked magnificent and they have such a great reputation.
Thanks so much,
Jim Henningsen
Sent from my iPad

On Jan 16, 2019, at 10:42 PM, Wbeech at flash.net<mailto:Wbeech at flash.net> <wbeech at flash.net<mailto:wbeech at flash.net>> wrote:
Judging guide Reference Should be TRA, my oversight.
Bill

On Jan 16, 2019, at 8:29 PM, Wbeech at flash.net<mailto:Wbeech at flash.net> <wbeech at flash.net<mailto:wbeech at flash.net>> wrote:
If y’all will allow one more “authority” to weigh in, the VTR Judging Guidlines state, “The canister is painted ice blue (specific color unknown) which takes a pale green caste with age.”

I’ll stick with my Valspar Peacock Blue.

Cheers,
Bill
Sent from my Motorola 8000X

On Jan 16, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Don Hiscock <don.hiscock at gmail.com<mailto:don.hiscock at gmail.com>> wrote:
The TR Register (UK) forum had a thread on the subject of oil filter canister housings a few years ago.
https://www.tr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bowl/<https://wwwtr-register.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/44252-oil-filter-bowl/>

Note especially the comments by our late, great friend Alec Pringle about his experience with lots of variations and the quite realistic comment that S-T were a lot more worried about keeping lines going and spares supplied than getting details "right" around shade.

The thread has some useful info, but this is one of those don't-sweat-it subjects around our cars.

Don
1962 TR3B TSF202L

On Tue, Jan 15, 2019 at 11:01 PM James Henningsen <trguy75 at gmail.com<mailto:trguy75 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Anyone have a source for correct paint color on early 1962 TR4 oil filter canister housing.  TRA judging manual says ice blue that patinas to a pale green.  Looking for a color code I can give my paint shop.   Thanks to any concours experts out there.
Jim Henningsen
Ocala FL


Sent from my iPhone
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