[TR] Triumphs Digest, Vol 11, Issue 168

JOSEPH MATO joemato at sbcglobal.net
Sat Jul 14 03:49:10 MDT 2018 

Auto Restoration School  There are many metal men who will teach you their trade and run free seminars where you can work on your latest project. You can go to allmetalshaping.com and see basic techniques, learn welding and make a needed panel for your TR. I love it and feel good when I make or fix something. I'm useful in my old age, at least for a few minutes!    Joe Mato

      From: "triumphs-request at autox.team.net" <triumphs-request at autox.team.net>
 To: triumphs at autox.team.net 
 Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 6:44 PM
 Subject: Triumphs Digest, Vol 11, Issue 168
   
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Vestigal Brown Wire? (Keith Stewart)
  2. Re: TR4A horn (Greg)
  3. Re: [Stag] AC blower motors (Patrick Baize)
  4. Re: [Stag] AC blower motors (Randall)
  5. Auto Restoration School (Wbeech at flash.net)
  6. Re: Auto Restoration School (Geo Hahn)
  7. Re: Auto Restoration School (David P)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 21:17:21 -0400
From: "Keith Stewart" <keithstewart at bell.net>
To: "'Tom Walling'" <pdqtr6 at comcast.net>, "'Triumphs'"
    <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Vestigal Brown Wire?
Message-ID: <00dc01d41a47$408dc4e0$c1a94ea0$@bell.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Wait another 20 years. Your memory will begin to fade and then it won?t bother you any more ?

 

Keith Stewart

keithstewart at bell.net

 

 

 

From: Tom Walling <pdqtr6 at comcast.net> 
Sent: July 11, 2018 6:37 PM
To: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] Vestigal Brown Wire?

 

Quick question... I have a '73 TR6 with a 3 wire plug connection alternator (Lucas 18ACR). I have recently discovered a mystery wire flopping around in the general vicinity of the alternator. I never noticed it before partly because it was covered in baked-on grunge, and partly because it is fairly short after leaving the wiring loom tape. I suspect it may be the "voltage sensing line" (Book of Masters, Chapter 13, page 54) and it has no function with a 3 wire alternator, however, there is an opening in the rear cover that is just the right size for the connector to go in, and a terminal spade inside. I have run the car this way for at least 20 years without any noticeable problems, but I does bother me that I have this unused brown wire.

 

Advice?

 

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 21:45:33 -0400
From: Greg <greg at gregoryd.com>
To: John Deluca <john-marie at sbcglobal.net>, "triumphs at autox.team.net"
    <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A horn
Message-ID: <0B363D7B-B523-4546-A7E3-FB214A775E00 at gregoryd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

That?s great!

 

I?m not positive how to fix it permanently.

 

My thought was to use a silver conductive epoxy, or something similar, to build up the surface of the contact.

 

But the only epoxy I found was $40. It?s not until now that I?ve asked the question below and will ask again here: does anyone have a recommendation for how to improve/expand the contact surface shown here https://imgur.com/n5mieHF?  Something like a silver conductive epoxy that has some hope of lasting a while. If the contacts were maybe a millimeter larger in the direction of the steering column, the left/right push probably wouldn?t be necessary.

 

--Greg

 

From: John Deluca <john-marie at sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 9:28 PM
To: Greg <greg at gregoryd.com>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A horn

 

Eureka!  That?s it.  Just tried it and it works.  Now, how do I fix it?

John

Sent from my iPad


On Jul 12, 2018, at 7:35 PM, Greg <greg at gregoryd.com> wrote:

I?ll add my experience to the mix: the horn on my ?67 TR4A would not work consistently. It would work, but randomly, it seemed. I examined all of the things Dave mentions, tested the wiring, and replaced the relay and the fuse. None of it worked.

 

The issue ended up being with the contacts pictured below (and here: https://imgur.com/n5mieHF), which bring the circuit up to the steering wheel and from there to the horn push:

 

<image001.png>

 

Over the years, these contacts had worn down to the point that the steering wheel did not make constant contact with one or the other. 

 

I discovered that, if I pushed on the horn and also pushed the steering wheel laterally just a bit to the left towards the driver?s door, or to the right towards the passenger door, contact would be made and the horn would sound. And it worked consistently ? it still does.

 

If nothing else is fixing it, try the left or right push. Having the engine on helps.

 

I?ll take this opportunity to ask my own question: does anyone have a recommendation for how to improve the contact ?permanently??  Something like a silver conductive epoxy? If the contacts were maybe a millimeter larger in the direction of the steering column, the left/right push probably wouldn?t be necessary.

 

One other thing: sometimes the circuit would complete ? you could see it on the ammeter, but still no horn. That took a turn or two on the adjustment screws on each of the horns.

 

--Greg

 

 

From: Triumphs <triumphs-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of DAVID MASSEY <dave1massey at cs.com>
Date: Thursday, July 12, 2018 at 8:30 AM
To: <john-marie at sbcglobal.net>, <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] TR4A horn

 

There are a number of things that have to work right for the horn to work reliably.  Power to the horn relay comes from the fuse but the grounding of the other side of the coil runs through a number connections that are the usual culprits in cases like these.  

 

First off there is a slip-ring behind the steering wheel.  This is the conductor the horn brush contacts and provides a current path as the wheel turns.  If there are dead spots (dirt, corrosion, damage) the horn brush cannot make good electrical contact and the horn will not work.  

 

The other end of the brush contact the horn push (push-button switch) in the wheel center.  That switch can also be bad but usually it is not dependent on steering wheel position.

 

The other side of the push contacts the steering wheel and hence the steering wheel shaft.  But we are not done since the steering wheel shaft is not ground.  The shaft rotates in a couple bushings which may or may not make contact to the outer shaft housing.  Also, this shaft connects to a second shaft via a rubber coupling.  And this shaft connects to the steering rack pinion shaft via another rubber coupling.  AND the rack itself is mounted with rubber bushes.  The designers, in an effort to make a reliable ground connection for the horn push, added grounding straps at each of the steering shaft couplers and to ground the rack.  If any of these straps is missing or broken you will not have a reliable ground connection to the steering wheel.

 

You can see these all depicted in the Moss catalog 

https://mossmotors.com/triumph-tr2-3-4/suspension-steering/steering/steering-tr4-4a

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Dave Massey

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Deluca <john-marie at sbcglobal.net>
To: triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Sent: Wed, Jul 11, 2018 10:12 pm
Subject: [TR] TR4A horn

My TR4A horn blows, but not consistently. With the front wheels off the ground, holding the horn button down and turning the steering wheel stop to stop, horn blows but not continually. There are dead spots where it doesn?t blow. But the dead spots are not always at the same place. Any ideas as to what is the cause? John DeLuca Sent from my iPad ** triumphs at autox.team.net ** Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/dave1massey@cs.com 

** triumphs at autox.team.net ** Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html Archive: http://www.team.net/archive Forums: http://www.team.net/forums Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/greg@gregoryd.com 

<image001.png>

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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 20:58:28 -0500
From: Patrick Baize <pbaize at satx.rr.com>
To: Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net,
    StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org, HDRider570 at att.net
Subject: Re: [TR] [Stag] AC blower motors
Message-ID: <a12c55da-652a-9cd4-c3b4-b1453dc1e606 at satx.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

Hi Glenn, Randall and Edward

 ??? Its the inside blower motors, no slow speed when turn on AC and no 
high speed when pull the switch.

 ??? Does anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram,? can't find 
mine. Google search doesn't help.

Thanks Patrick


On 7/12/2018 3:09 PM, Randall wrote:
> Are you saying it won't run at all, or only that it doesn't come on 
> without pulling the blower switch?
> And just to be clear, you mean the blower in the cabin, not the fans 
> under the hood/bonnet?
> -- Randall
>
> On 11 July 2018 16:50:02 GMT-07:00, Patrick Baize <pbaize at satx.rr.com> 
> wrote:
>
>    Hi All
>
>      ??? Anyone had their blower motors not run, when AC on?? Anything I can
>    check?
>
>    Thanks Patrick
>
>    71 Stag
>
>
>    ---
>    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>    ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
>    Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>    Archive:http://www.team.net/archive
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Message: 4
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 23:03:11 -0600
From: Randall <tr3driver at ca.rr.com>
To: Patrick Baize <pbaize at satx.rr.com>, triumphs at autox.team.net,
    StagByTriumph at triumphstagclub.org, HDRider570 at att.net
Subject: Re: [TR] [Stag] AC blower motors
Message-ID: <083AC627-43AD-4A5B-9DE5-A14A4019DC1D at ca.rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Sorry, Patrick. All I can offer at the moment is a PDF of the ROM. Looks like the diagram you want is on page 490. You'll probably have to download the whole thing.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2H2NJt34OffYWY3M2RjYTQtNzFiOS00ZDYxLWJkNmMtMzQ4ZjU3YzczMjQ4/view


-- Randall

On 12 July 2018 19:58:28 GMT-06:00, Patrick Baize <pbaize at satx.rr.com> wrote:
>Hi Glenn, Randall and Edward
>
>??? Its the inside blower motors, no slow speed when turn on AC and no 
>high speed when pull the switch.
>
> ??? Does anyone know where I can get a wiring diagram,? can't find 
>mine. Google search doesn't help.
>
>Thanks Patrick
>
>
>On 7/12/2018 3:09 PM, Randall wrote:
>> Are you saying it won't run at all, or only that it doesn't come on 
>> without pulling the blower switch?
>> And just to be clear, you mean the blower in the cabin, not the fans 
>> under the hood/bonnet?
>> -- Randall
>>
>> On 11 July 2018 16:50:02 GMT-07:00, Patrick Baize
><pbaize at satx.rr.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>    Hi All
>>
>>      ??? Anyone had their blower motors not run, when AC on??
>Anything I can
>>    check?
>>
>>    Thanks Patrick
>>
>>    71 Stag
>>
>>
>>    ---
>>    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>software.
>>    https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>>
>>    ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>>
>>    Donate:http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>    Archive:http://www.team.net/archive
>>    Forums:http://www.team.net/forums
>>    
>Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/tr3driver@ca.rr.com
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 08:25:28 -0500
From: "Wbeech at flash.net" <wbeech at flash.net>
To: Dave Ranteer <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: [TR] Auto Restoration School
Message-ID: <7D4DB3B9-1E7A-40D4-A61D-BF21EDB8DD9F at flash.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Need this in the US too, for Brit cars.  

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/07/13/uk-government-to-start-backing-auto-restoration-apprenticeships/?refer=news

Sent from my Apple II+
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 07:45:37 -0700
From: Geo Hahn <ahwahneetr at gmail.com>
To: "Wbeech at flash.net" <wbeech at flash.net>
Cc: Triumphs <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Auto Restoration School
Message-ID:
    <CANzE1bG+pAr=qYzk-m2oW9hMrG_60sE2ndBENOtms+BRqiD+7A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Closest thing in the U.S. may be McPherson College:

https://www.mcpherson.edu/autorestoration/

Pronounced mac-fur-son because (as they like to say) 'There is no fear in
McPherson'.

Geo

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 7:34 AM Wbeech at flash.net <wbeech at flash.net> wrote:

> Need this in the US too, for Brit cars.
>
>
> https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/07/13/uk-government-to-start-backing-auto-restoration-apprenticeships/?refer=news
>
> Sent from my Apple II+
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/ahwahneetr@gmail.com
>
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Message: 7
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2018 09:17:27 -0600
From: David P <frogeye at porterscustom.com>
To: "Wbeech at flash.net" <wbeech at flash.net>, Dave Ranteer
    <triumphs at autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: [TR] Auto Restoration School
Message-ID: <dda9291b-bd6e-0412-43c1-3ec1ff30ab5f at porterscustom.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

...now accepted student applications.. dp


On 7/13/2018 7:25 AM, Wbeech at flash.net wrote:
> Need this in the US too, for Brit cars.
>
> https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2018/07/13/uk-government-to-start-backing-auto-restoration-apprenticeships/?refer=news
>
> Sent from my Apple II+
>
>
> ** triumphs at autox.team.net **
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/triumphs/frogeye@porterscustom.com

-- 
Porter Custom Bicycles 2902 Arno St. NE Albuquerque, NM. 505-352-1378 My World go here: WWW.PORTERBIKES.COM/



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------------------------------

End of Triumphs Digest, Vol 11, Issue 168
*****************************************


   
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