[TR] TR4a ignition advance: Marcel Chichak's database

[dkspence at telus.net]

On Sep 24, 2007, at 12:00 PM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:
> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4a ignition advance
Eric Frenken made the following comment
> Tony and all,
>
> when using Marcel Chichak's list you should be aware of the continuous
> faultiness of this list. I've told him more than once of these  
> faults and he
> said he'll correct the list, as soon as his time permits, and that  
> this will
> most likely not be in the near future.
>
> Eric
> http://brits-n-pieces.com

As Marcel is an old friend and lives nearby, I asked him to share  
some insight into the data base etc.
  The following is his response and is posted here with his  
permission. It is offered for information purposes only.  If you have  
information that will assist in the further development of the  
database, please feel free to contact Marcel. Please don't be  
offended if you don't receive an immediate response as he is  
extremely busy renovating a newly acquired warehouse to accommodate  
his cars and shop.



"The Lucas Distributor Database is something I started building about  
10 years ago and have been working on ever since. The original seed  
data was a 1972 SpeedSport book "Tuning Lucas Distributor Systems"  
which I scanned,  OCRed and cleaned up. I augmented that with data  
from workshop manuals, but this started to illustrate the  
inaccuracies in the source data. To address the contradictory data I  
bought, I picked up a few printed Lucas manuals, but this got costly  
so I bought CD's containing scans of the original Lucas master  
service lists which I cleaned up, OCRed, cleaned and proofed then  
populated into my original database.   This certainly filled in a lot  
of data holes, but it also introduced more anomalies. In fact, Lucas  
themselves had contradictory data from one years master list to the  
next. The most unreliable data is rotation direction. It appears that  
Lucas wasn't consistent in defining whether the direction reference  
was looking at the rotor from the top or the dog from the bottom. The  
database now contains a check box to indicate whether the direction  
is from seed data or confirmed from the actual distributor (Ebay is a  
great source for images of specific service numbers). Another problem  
with shop manuals is that they are inconsistent in listing data with  
reference to distributor or engine RPM and advance. I have seen an  
example, Haynes, natch, that mixes the two.

A while ago I got hold of Lucas parts lists which allowed me to  
correlate advance curves with specific springs and cams. Therefore,  
knowing the curve for one service number and what parts it contained,  
I could surmise that another service number with the same parts must  
have the same curve.  Service number alone does not describe the  
curve, just the application. Lucas used "ECM" number to describe  
unique curves, so using the parts lists and other data I populated  
more data correlating on ECM. Unfortunately, I have been unsuccessful  
in tracking down the master ECM data, or even what ECM stands for!

So, without the true original Lucas master list of data, master ECM  
curves or access to original distributors to pull the data from, the  
list I have created is the best single source of data that is  
available. Certainly there are errors, but are they in the Lucas  
master list(s) or the OEM service manuals?

There is no need for anyone to get huffy about the database. My life  
does not revolve around building perfect databases from 40 year old  
questionable data, I do it as a hobby and I do it as time permits.  
The database as it stands represents about 100 hours of my time and  
$300 of cash outlay on manuals and CD's. For this I ask no  
compensation or thanks. I just put it out there for people to use,  
free of charge because I want to contribute to the community. If  
someone has a problem with my work, or wants to offer corrections I  
welcome the input, but, as I said, I do it as a hobby and I'll get to  
it when I get to it. Since no one else on the planet has taken on  
this task, the criticism voiced here only goes to prove that no good  
deed goes unpunished.

Don't worry, this won't stop me from pursuing this, or other ideas,  
or extrapolating what I have learned to benefit the community in  
other ways. The fact is, the Lucas Distributor Database was the basis  
for the work I did to develop the 123 distributor line including the  
123/GB-4 for Triumph engines. You're welcome."



--Marcel Chichak
         Edmonton Alberta Canada, eh?
  Peek into my world: www.starchak.ca
  check out www.tdcperformance.ca/
  and visit my history page www.shell-4000-rally.org


On Sep 24, 2007, at 12:00 PM, triumphs-request at autox.team.net wrote:

> Subject: Re: [TR] TR4a ignition advance