[Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine Study

Tue Sep 6 10:38:46 MDT 2016

Mayf

                This is the error I get sending to your email address - This
is the email server for the mayfco.com domain.  I'm sorry to have to inform
you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more
destinations.

< <mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com> drmayf at mayfco.com>: Permanent Failure: No
account by that name here

I have no idea why this happens; it's beyond me.  It's almost like there is
a Block in place on one of our systems.

Back to the subject

All 260 engines were cast and assembled at the Cleveland Foundry; you will
see a CF logo cast into the parts.  See picture - 289 head with CF logo.
260 is not cast into any of the 260 parts only the CF logo and a casting
date code; this is where casting numbers are important to understand the
parts you have.

Since the Cleveland Foundry was familiar with the process of packaging
containers to ship engines and transmissions to England I believe it is
logical that all Tiger engines 260 and 289 were cast and assembled at the
Cleveland Foundry.  I have seen no indication of anything other than this.

The Windsor Foundry castings have a WF logo cast into them.   The Windsor
Foundry started making 289 engine in Jan/ Feb 1966.  I see no reason why any
Tiger engine production would be transferred to the Windsor Foundry.

Ford sent Rootes at least 7085 engines + spares, the actual total count is
not known to me, so you're looking at around $5,000,000 at $700 each, I
don't know the actual price per engine.  I would say that is good chunk of
change, around 1 million dollars a year, assuming that is near correct.
Granted, that probably looks like chump change looking at a total Ford
Operating Budget.

Another question that pops up; Why do the engine numbers seem all over the
place with respect to the Vin #?   My best guess here is shipping and
handling.

Ford does things in a linear manor until you look at the number of people
involved moving engines for storage, packaging, loading and unloading onto
trains, ships or whatever transport method employed both in the USA and
England.    Shipping and handling creates the chaos with the engine number
order, FILO may apply here too, First In, Last Out at every loading and
unloading station.

Ron Fraser

From: Larry Mayfield [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2016 10:19 AM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine Study

Thanks, Ron. I somehow or another see the valve cover number replacing the
engine number for parts tracking at the dealer/manufacturer level. As to
Ford, this was a pretty small order actually. Approximately 6000 engines at
what, say 700 bucks, at the time. And over the delivery period, not much  on
an annual sales basis for Ford.  Windsor motors made at the Cleveland Site?
I guess I do need to be educyficated, lol.  

As to mail bounces?  Do you send directly to   <mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com>
drmayf at mayfco.com  ?  Interesting.  Perhaps you need to add me to your
address book? 

Thanks for trying to straighten me out, lol.

mayf

From: Tigers [mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
via Tigers
Sent: Monday, September 5, 2016 8:51 PM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net> 
Subject: [Tigers] FW: Original Tiger Engine Study

Mayf

                I don't know why but my server always gives me a Mail
Delivery error for you.

I've forward this to the Tigers List so you're sure to receive my reply

Ron Fraser

From: Ron Fraser [mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 11:43 PM
To: 'Larry Mayfield' <drmayf at mayfco.com <mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com> >
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

Mayf

                The way I understand it Ford produced and applied the decals
on each valve cover; I believe this was Ford's accounting system for each
engine.

The engine group numbers vary in letters; this is an old alpha to numeric
system that Norm Miller discovered at Ford.   He lists it on his web site,
Bits and Pieces pg. 4.

Tiger Engine groups start with T, E, G, L, A, K, S, F, B and each represents
a different number and covers engine groups from T15KL = 8/15/63 to 

A22KK = 4/22/66.  I believe the engine group numbers represents a start
build paperwork date for the Cleveland Foundry.

My hope is to understand what kind of correlation there is between the
engine group numbers and the assembly date codes stamped into each engine
within each engine group.

                To me everything on the Sunbeam or Rootes LTD valve cover
sticker screams Ford.   Rootes would have no reason to make and apply a
decal that states Ford especially with Chrysler buying shares in the Rootes
Group  but Ford would have every reason in the world to advertise Made in
the USA by Ford Motor Company. 

Ron

From: Larry Mayfield [mailto:drmayf at mayfco.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 05, 2016 8:17 PM
To: 'Ron Fraser' <rfraser at bluefrog.com>
Subject: RE: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

Ron, rereading some of my emails. Have a question regards the engine codes
like the one below.  Isn't that metal decal added by Sunbeam and not Ford?
Do they all start with a B? Like our car vin numbers.  Seems to me that this
would be a way for Rootes to tie engines to cars rather than to Ford trying
to do that.  Or is it that I am a day late and a dollar short in knowing
what is going on, lol. That is a strong possibility! My guess is that when
engines rolled into Rootes the production folk immediately slapped the decal
on the valve cover to indicate the cars in production that week or month.  

Anyway, interesting discussion regards some of these things. 

Mayf

_________________________
drmayf
Worlds Fastest Sunbeam, period.
204.913 mph flying mile
210.779 mph exit (not top)  speed

From: Tigers [mailto:tigers-bounces at autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Ron Fraser
via Tigers
Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2016 9:08 AM
To: tigers at Autox.Team.Net <mailto:tigers at Autox.Team.Net> 
Subject: [Tigers] Original Tiger Engine Study

The mystery of the B19KC engine group.

My theory is that this engine group has an early 65 build since B19KC
translates to Feb 19, 1965.   

I believe that date indicates start build paperwork for the Cleveland
Foundry and I expect some engines were built in Feb, March 1965.

These 260 engines were built to 1965 specifications and painted black.

The problem is, I have no evidence for this early build so I need your help
to solve the mystery.

I believe this early build of the B19KC group started around engine # 5570
and ended around engine #6000.

It would be interesting to know what engine # started the B19KC engine
group.

It would be interesting to know what engine # ended this early build.

I have read some statements online indicating there are owners with black
B19KC engines.

I would like to hear from them and send them my Original Engine Worksheet so
if anyone has one of these engine or has seen one somewhere; please pass my
contact information to them.

I'm always looking for more information about any of the engine groups so
don't hesitate to participate.

Thanks for your help

Ron Fraser          rfraser at bluefrog.com <mailto:rfraser at bluefrog.com> 

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