[Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part two!

Fri Mar 13 17:42:14 MDT 2020

Bronze guides...
https://www.netbug.net/blogmichael/2007/05/15/bronze-giudes-in-cast-iron-cylinder-heads/

On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 12:17 PM Steven Kingsbury via Healeys, <
healeys at autox.team.net> wrote:

> This is the first I have ever heard about the bronze valve guides being
> crushed. I had always heard they were the better ones and they are by far
> the more expensive. Not that money and/or expensive makes something better.
> I have heard though, that they are better, so this is a surprise.
>    And yes, I will be checking everything over with a fine tooth comb all
> this weekend. With the amount of carbon I found on the valves I am for sure
> going to be checking the piston rings even though the cylinder walls are
> quite pristine. The reason? Finding less than stellar workmanship in the
> previous work done of this engine, I just don't trust that the rings were
> done correctly to begin with and since I'm here, I'm going to check.  Peace
> of mind will be well worth it.
> Steven
>
> On March 13, 2020 at 11:47 AM, WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink at msn.com> wrote:
>
> Another consideration is whether you have bronze valve guides in an iron
> head. These can cause problems due to the different thermal expansion rates
> of the materials. The iron can crush the bronze and cause the valve to
> stick.
>
> Bill Lawrence
> BN1 #554
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces at autox.team.net> on behalf of Kees
> Oudesluijs <coudesluijs at chello.nl>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 13, 2020 8:19:28 AM
> *To:* healeys at autox.team.net <healeys at autox.team.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part two!
>
>
> Measure the bores in several places first. If no significant wear is
> apparent leave the pistons and rings well alone. Also look for ridges near
> the top of the bores. If they are not present, wear is not very likely. If
> the bores are fine, piston ring wear is not likely. Valves do rock a bit in
> the guides. They need to, they expand in the guides when the engine is
> running. You may or may not use cap seals on the valve guides.
>
> If there is wear in the cylinders however have the block rebored and fit
> new pistons and rings
>
> Burning some oil is nothing to worry about on the old engines. When new
> 1ltr per 1000km (about 1 qrt per 500mls) was quite permissible (after
> running in during which oil consumption could be much higher). Check the
> crank case ventilation system, when dirty/blocked it can be a cause of
> considerable oil consumption. Anyway you probably loose most oil leaking.
> Overfilling the sump is another cause of oil consumption as excessive oil
> will be expelled through the crank case ventilation system
>
> The head should be dead straight but the surface does not need to be super
> smooth. In most causes you can see feel the milling marks.
>
> Replacing the bearing shells and seals is good practice if the bottom end
> comes apart. Does not cost an arm and a leg and if in time you will save on
> grinding the crankshaft. Measure the crank pins in various places and check
> if these are within limits.
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
> Op 13-3-2020 om 00:29 schreef Steven Kingsbury via Healeys:
>
> Latest update, took the head to a friend's machine shop and took the
> valves out. All the intake vales had build up of soft carbon, a sign of
> burning oil I was told and I'm going to have to also pull the pistons to
> redo the rings. Fun, but I'm here, so why not? I'm also going to get new
> valve guides pressed in and replace the ones in the head as the valves seem
> to rock a bit going up and down. The head though is not warped and is
> straight, but I will get it checked out for cracks and resurface the head
> to make it super smooth.
>    I'm also going to drop the pan, and push the pistons out of the block
> and replace the rings. And yes, I will plastiguage the crank to make sure
> it's in good shape and install new rod bearings when in there.
>    I am also going to remove the tappet cover and take a good, hard, close
> up look at all the lifters to make sure that's not a problem. Right now, in
> for a penny, in for a pound. Sterling that is.
>    Basically, I'm making sure everything is correct this time and then I
> will have no one but me to blame if it doesn't work. But all in all, it
> seems pretty simple. So stay tuned for further updates as they happen.
>    Thanks for all the input, suggestions and guesses. This is actually
> quite the fun project.
> Steven Kingsbury
>
>
> On March 12, 2020 at 12:38 PM, John Harper <ah100register at gmail.com>
> <ah100register at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hank
>
> The fact that number 2 exhaust valve is not the same colour as the others
> might be a clue. Maybe it is not closing fully? It would be worth checking
> for a stuck valve guide, broken spring or just lost  clearance. A partially
> seized rocker is possible but not likely. This may not be the problem but
> it would not take much effort to pull the valve out and check for any
> burning on the working face.
>
> Best regards
>
> On Thu, 12 Mar 2020 at 18:18, <gradea1 at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Hi Steven-good to hear from you!
>
> That's a nice test, but I would magnaflux the head for cracks between 2-3
> and have it shaved flat..could be a head gasket leak due to warped
> head...especially if valves and rings checked good.
>
> Also, I don't recommend  NGK plugs- use Champion N-5...maybe cause of
> carbon on valves. Unless cam is flat, valve spring broken or tappet rods
> bent/broken, problem is in head-block fit.
>
> Regards, Hank Leach
>
>
> -----------------------------------------
> From: "Steven Kingsbury via Healeys"
> To: healeys at autox.teamnet
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday March 12 2020 9:40:25AM
> Subject: [Healeys] Four cylinder woes, part two!
>
> Okay, here's the latest! I finally got to pull my head If you remember, I
> had 155 lbs of pressure in cylinders 1, 3, and 4 and only 25 lbs in
> cylinder number two. So with the head off, I was prepared to find a problem
> with I flipped it over to expose the valves, no such luck. Other than
> number two exhaust valve being a bit black, no cracks, nothing stuck and it
> looked fine. So then I went to look into the cylinders themselves, walls
> smooth, flat high compression pistons smooth, number three a bit rough on
> the top, but other than that and good.
>    So then I went back to the head, put the spark plugs back in and filled
> the combustion chambers with paint thinner to see where it would leak out.
> Filled each chamber evenly and waited. Twelve hours later, and other than
> evaporation, no leaks! All chambers still even in their fluid retention.
>    So then I rotated the crank to get all the pistons to an almost even
> position and put paint thinner in the cylinders at the same depth. No quick
> leak, not one cylinder faster than the others and all the fluid finally
> drained out smoothly and evenly in each cylinder.
>    I'm a bit stumped. My next step is taking the head to a guy in town, an
> old machinist who builds his own engines and runs his car at Bonneville in
> the 300 mph range. He knows what he's doing and I'm sure he will give me
> some sage advice and help. Also as a side note, I went over the head with a
> magnifying glass and can see now cracks, but that doesn't mean they are not
> there I know. I was just thinking with a 100 pound plus difference,
> something would be obvious.
>    I am also going to be taking off the tappet cover on the side, inspect
> all the lifters and see what I can find there. Like I said, I'm a bit
> perplexed, but I'm not done. I will find something wrong! Here are some
> photos for you, maybe you can see something I can't.
>
> [image: IMG_20200311_143602.jpg]
> Here's the head, upside down and you can see the exhaust valve on number
> two is blacker than the others, but no cracks, chips, or visible damage.
> [image: IMG_20200311_172123.jpg]
> And here's the fluid I placed in the combustion chambers. It didn't drain
> out and just sat there.
>
>
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>
> --
> Best wishes
>
> John Harper
>
> AHC UK 100 Register Secretary
>
>
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