[Healeys] bolt identification - another article

Sun Nov 25 09:34:24 MST 2018

Curt I'm starting to become concerned about this addictive behavior with
respect to fasteners  ... perhaps you should be considering seeking
counseling 🤣🤣🤣

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018, 1:45 AM Curtis Arndt <cnaarndt at gmail.com wrote:

> Gentlemen,
>
> The Charles Falco article is somewhat dated, but overall is factually
> correct if not complete.  I've personally spoken with Charles regarding
> this article.  He is correct, it is common to find UNC bolts and studs used
> where BSW threads were originally tapped.  I discuss this in my article
> with regard to the generator link adjusting bolt on BN1/2 (possibly
> 100-6's) and Bugeye Sprites.
>
> One of the biggest misconceptions that I've come across (even from Brits
> that I know) is that *the only Whitworth fasteners* are BSW, and BSF,
> BSP, BSPT, BSB, etc... and others are somehow NOT Whitworth.  Totally
> untrue!  Whitworth is BY DEFINITION is...
>
>
> *Whitworth Screw Thread Form: **A thread form and system of standard
> sizes, proposed by Joseph Whitworth in 1841 and adopted as standard in the
> U.K., having a flank angle of 55° and a rounded top (crest) and foot
> (root). (Named after Sir Joseph Whitworth (1803--87), English engineer). *
>
>
> As you can read, Whitworth is a thread form, and NOT a hex bolt/nut size.
> Note that this says NOTHING about hex head/spanner size.
>
> Case in point...The confusion has to do with bolt head sizing with regard
> to certain other British fasteners such as BSC or BSCy - (British Standard
> Cycle) and the older now obsolete CEI - (Cycle Engineers Institute} bolts,
> that while they have Whitworth hex heads, are a thread form with a 60° thread
> pitch angle, ergo not Whitworth.
>
> Are we confused yet?  Wikipedia also does not help the debate since they
> incorrectly list BSC bolts as Whitworth, when technically they are not.
>
> *There will be a quiz *;-^)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Curt
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 9:01 PM Mirek Sharp <m.g.sharp at sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Here is another article (actually an old post from another forum) on
>> British fasteners.  It is interesting but note that the author was not
>> clear on the pipe threads, not distinguishing BSPP and BSPT, and provides
>> somewhat dubious advice at the end about “making do” with UNC instead of
>> the correct fastener.  My advice – use the correct threading system and
>> grade of bolt.  Note, that despite my earlier tongue-in-cheek comments, the
>> BA thread system is based on metric principles, but with the unavoidable
>> English twist.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers, Mirek
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces at autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *Curtis
>> Arndt
>> *Sent:* November-22-18 3:46 AM
>> *To:* Michael Oritt
>> *Cc:* John Vrugtman; Healey List
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] bolt identification
>>
>>
>>
>> John,
>>
>>
>>
>> Here is some more pertinent information that might help...
>>
>>
>>
>> I've attached a copy of my 1957 vintage machinery Handbook which shows
>> the various markings used to denote Whitworth from Unified fasteners.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also an excerpt from one of my yet completed articles.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Curt
>>
>> *Error! Filename not specified.*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2018 at 12:32 AM Curtis Arndt <cnaarndt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> John,
>>
>>
>>
>> Like most British bolts of the earlier part of last century, the Vendor
>> name was printed on the bolt, e.g. Rubery-Owen or RO, Bees, Wiley, Woden
>> and about 30+ others.  So to answer your question... BEES was the vendor.
>> The bolt you refer to with an actual Bee on the head is a very early bolt,
>> and is one that I have in my collection.  It most likely is a Whitworth
>> bolt, either BSF (fine) or BSW (coarse).
>>
>>
>>
>> The  "Rubery Owen B28-35" that you refer to is a "Mild" steel bolt,
>> similar to an SAE Grade "2" US bolt.  The strength rating is "B" and the
>> measurement is 28 to 35 tons per square inch or tons tensile.  The range
>> refers to "yield" strength and "ultimate tensile" strength as described in
>> my attached article.  FYI, multiply 28 or 35 times a ton and you'll get the
>> strength in pounds, or psi... HOWEVER  we're talking British here, so it's
>> not 2,000 pounds as in a US ton but 2,240 pounds as in a British Long Ton!
>>
>>
>>
>> Along with the vendor name was the strength rating expressed as a letter
>> which for *hi tensile* bolts was D, E, F and G prior to 1950 and changed
>> to R, S, T,  U,  V,  W,  and X after 1950.  I have included (attached) my
>> draft on British Strength rating codes decoded which I hope to officially
>> publish on my blog site once it's up and running.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, the bolt heads were marked to differentiate Whitworth (BSW, BSF,
>> etc...) from UNF and UNC once this new thread form system was phased in
>> during the early 1950s.  For bolts, that was a "circular" depression on the
>> head of the bolt which meant the bolt was a "Unified" versus a "Whitworth"
>> thread form bolt.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope this helps and email me directly if you have any further questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Curt
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 9:01 PM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John--
>>
>>
>>
>> Check this out:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-2zllShyvv34/UQLGj7XqZjI/AAAAAAAAPUg/e1--MCxAPKY/s1600/Bee:1.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving to you and Cindi.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best--Michael Oritt
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 10:19 PM John Vrugtman <javrugtman at htcnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubery_Owen
>>
>> Bees bolts seem to be very obscure, saw a picture of one, but no
>> reference to the manufacturer
>>
>> On 11/21/2018 6:58 PM, warthodson at aol.com wrote:
>>
>> I was sorting thru a box of hardware & found two bolts that I cannot
>> identify. They both are approx. 1/4" diameter. They both have the same
>> thread per inch. According to my thread gage they are between 24 & 26 TPI.
>> So call it 25 TPI. I do not have a metric thread gage to check them against.
>>
>>
>>
>> One is marked "Rubery Owen B28-35" on the head & measures about 5/8"
>> long. The other is marked "BEES" & has a embossed emblem of a bee on the
>> head & measures about 3/4" long. The lengths do not include the head, of
>> course. No other markings on the heads.
>>
>> They will not accept a BSF nut, UNF or UNC nut or any metric nuts that I
>> have.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can anyone ID these for me?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Gary Hodson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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