[Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)

warthodson at aol.com warthodson at aol.com
Sat Dec 1 08:01:05 MST 2018 

Another sloshing horror story. We were 600 mikes from home & in the Rocky Mountains. A friend's 3000 had been running fine until one day in the mountains. It began to run fine for about 15-20 minutes, then slowly die. A few minutes later it would restart & run fine for 15-20 minutes & die again. It repeated this pattern over & over. Of course we checked adjusted &/or replaced everything we could. The problem turned out to be the sloshing sealer that had separated in a large sheet from the bottom of the tank. With the pump running the sheet would be sucked up to the pickup & the pump was being starved for fuel. When the engine died & the ignition was shut off the sheet of sealant would slowly sink back down to the bottom of the tank & the pump could again deliver fuel until the sheet was again drawn up to the pick up. Gary Hodson

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell at comcast.net>
To: healeys <healeys at autox.team.net>
Sent: Fri, Nov 30, 2018 10:47 pm
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)

 Moah DATA!  Yeah! Definitely makes sense.  Both my Healeys have had their tanks sloshed with Bill Hirsch sealer (I heard Bill Hirsch died recently, BTW).  The BJ8's tank was done at least 20 years ago, the BN2's more recently.  I inspect them occasionally and have seen no evidence of any fragments of the sealer either coming out of the feed pipe or in the pumps when I pull them apart.  Also, when the last pump stopped and I fitted my last spare pump it started pumping enthusiastically--and I drove it for 10 or so miles--so if the pickup tube in the tank is plugged I wouldn't expect that, but I'll have a look inside the tanks. I've reported it before, but when restoring the BN2 we bought a used tank.  We had an issues with an extremely erratic pump: no pumping, heavy thrashing (like fibrillation you get when the tank runs dry or you have an inlet leak) and occasionally, normal pumping.  We blew out the lines, tried several needle valves and Grose jets but to no avail.  Finally, my dad had a hunch and cut the pickup tube out of the tank.  Sure enough, there was a lot of corrosion and a pinhole leak in the tube near where it exited the tank.  Dad speculated that the flux used to solder the tube in the tank was corrosive and not cleaned off correctly (well, it was a 40-year-old tank at the time).  Something to put in the diagnostics database. Bob
  On 11/28/2018 8:26 PM, Michael Salter wrote:
  
 
This discussion about fuel pumps has revived something from the old grey matter ... To those mentioning repeated failures one problem that will cause premature failure is restrictions in the supply to the pump. The way these pumps work is that the spring in the pump provides the pressure. As the pressure on the output side of the pump decreases the diaphragm moves down to a point where the points close, that energizes the coil to pull the armature up against the spring pressure to the point where the points "flip" and open to stop the current flow through the coil. HOWEVER if there is a restriction in the fuel line feeding the pump the low pressure at the pump inlet can create a partial vacuum which will prevent the armature from rising fully and thus the points from "flipping" . When this happens the coil remains energized and "cooks" in a short time thus ruining the pump. I discovered this while trying to resolve a delivery problem in a car that had had the tank "sloshed". The sloshing compound had coated the gauze filter  inside the tank severly restricting the flow.  The test was to put an analogue ammeter on the pump electrical supply which showed the prolonged current flow to the pump. 
  M  
  On Wed, Nov 28, 2018, 9:45 PM Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs at chello.nl wrote:
  
  Quite so. The only thing I can come up with is the car is hardly being used and being stored in dampish non ventilated conditions, thus corroding the points. As I said before I have had SU fuel pumps in from more than 50 years old which were absolutely perfect except for the points corroded because the car was not used enough or worn because of not being adjusted properly. 
  If used regularly and kept dry internally they last forever.
  Another thing: If you have had to tap the pump to get it going, replace/polish and adjust the points ASAP. Do not wait until you have to repeat the tapping. When fitting a new SU-pump you best remove the cap to inspect and if needed clean the points first with very fine polishing paper, I use at least 1000. It is even not uncommon that brand new pumps that have been on the shelf for a while, either at home, in the garage or at the suppliers do not work because the points are dirty/corroded and have to be attended to first. I have bought many pumps that were sold as "defective, for spares  or repair"  for a song, that did not work and appeared to be in fact NOS. Cleaning and polishing the points was all that was needed for these. If you have a new/rebuild spare pump in store , remove the cap and insert a bit of acid free paper in between the points, this will stop electrolytic corrosion. In the late 70´s I was collecting  quite a lot of Jensen parts and got presented a new pump by Jensen Parts & Service that was said to be defective but only needed some small attention. My old pump kept working (more than 160000mls) so the new pump was never needed. About 5 or 6 years ago I came across that pump and decided to have a look inside. It was of course mint but there were real  cauliflowers around the points. Just polished them, fitted a transil (as I do with all my rebuilds) and is now in my present car.
  
  Kees Oudesluijs 
  
  Op 28-11-2018 om 18:50 schreef healeydoc at gmail.com:
  
   I do not understand the problem with the SU pump that everyone feels that they have to re invent the wheel. I have using the standard SU pump with points in my Healey for almost 75000 miles and never had a failure.    We also have been installing the standard SU points pump here at the shop on every car we do for over 40 years  Everything from Healey’s, MG’s and Jaguar’s and had very few failures.       David Nock
 healeydoc at sbcglobal.net
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       From: Tom  Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:00 AM To: healeys at autox.team.net  Subject: Re: [Healeys] Fuel pumps (AGAIN!)       I found the voltage regulator was misadjusted when i got my car.  At 17V, a new pump quit working in less than a year.  At 14V, the replacement is 10 years old and happily ticking away.    Tom     On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 9:16 PM Frank Magnusson <fmags at cox.net wrote:
  
   Hi Bob,   I’m also not sure why you’re having problems with pumps.  Maybe something common between all of them; the vent, the ground, the venting of the fuel  system, etc.   I replaced my original pump in the late 80’s with a stock SU pump with points and it’s been on the car ever  since; no problems except last year when it didn’t want to start, but a rap with a rubber mallet and it’s been working ever since.   Try Healey Surgeons for a replacement pump.  Their parts are 100% correct and I’ve never had a problem with anything from them in almost 30 years.   Best of luck, Frank ’65 BJ8  
 
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