[Fot] A cam for Rick

Fri Jan 27 10:35:55 MST 2023

Several years ago I invested a good sum of money on a stock of new quality TR cam blanks.  I have exactly one left, which I am saving for my own needs.  I have tried to find an affordable source for a stock of new blanks without success.  One of the reasons is that in order for me to recoup my investment and make enough to cover my time, pay the cam grinder (whose price has gone up several times in the last 3 years) I have to sell a 298dx cam for +$700.00.  There are not enough folks with need or budget to make this happen going forward.

If someone comes up with a NEW blank they can send me I will get it ground and back for the price of the grinding + shipping + $100.00 for my time.  My grinder will NOT use an old TR camshaft as a blank.  I wish I had a better solution but I do not.  The reality is that

racing costs what racing costs and that is never cheap.  Good parts are expensive.  

We in FOT can at least be happy we are not paying for parts and services for a vintage racing Porsche (TR costs x 4).  We just use our old iron to pass them on the track.   Good racing all.  Ken

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Larry Young via Fot
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2023 8:02 AM
To: fot at autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] A cam for Rick

Ken has the original CNC ground master, so presumably it is ground from a copy which will be less accurate. - Larry

On 1/26/2023 10:57 AM, Ken Knight via Fot wrote:

Everyone should be aware this cam is ground on an original TR cam core, not a new blank.  Ken

From: Fot  <mailto:fot-bounces at autox.team.net> <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Tony and Annie Garmey via Fot
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:24 PM
To: Tony Drews  <mailto:tony at tonydrews.com> <tony at tonydrews.com>
Cc: fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Fot] A cam for Rick

The Larry  young DX cam profile is available at Webb Camshaft, Riverside Ca.  

I’ve used this profile with a lot of success for multiple clients . 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 22, 2023, at 2:58 PM, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net <mailto:fot at autox.team.net> > wrote:

I was going to keep out of this one but am not capable of it.  :)

I run Larry's original design cams.  I'm not quite sure who is making them now - Ken Knight had some made last go-round.  It's fast but not as peaky as the Erson 24 - coming out of a turn at 3000 rpm is fine, 3500 is better, pulls through 6500 RPM, not sure where it drops off - haven't had the courage to rev that high.

Most of the front runners (to my knowledge at least) run the Erson 24.  I ran a modified one of those (experimental) and hated that one because it was even worse at low RPM than the Erson.

We ran an Isky 666 cam early on and it might be more suitable for a less highly stressed engine.  It was tractable and pulled through 6000, not sure about higher - I suspect going over 6000 won't be worth it.  With a built engine, ported head, all the goodies it's not as fast / powerful as the Larry or Erson ones.

The Isky would be easier on the valve train.  Larry's profile requires full diameter stock lifters - if you've gone with the GT40 lifters sleeved down it'll wipe the cam.  One set of lifters I bought from BPNW they had put a chamfer around the edge to break the sharp edge and that was enough to wipe a cam too.  It's pretty high lift so you need to have your ducks in a row for there not to be spring bind, have the seat pressures right, and consider valves and springs a replaceable wear item.  I suspect the same is true for the Erson 24 grind as well.  I believe there's an Erson 23 grind which is less radical that might be an option.

I'm trying to point out possible "off the shelf" items that don't require you to send a profile to a cam grinder...

The Erson ones are hopefully still available from Brian Howlett / BFE / www.BritishFrameandEngine.com <http://www.BritishFrameandEngine.com> .  Not sure who's making the Larry Young design ones now.

Cheers, Tony Drews

On 1/22/2023 11:30 AM, Larry Young via Fot wrote:

The numbers for Erson/BFE #24 mentioned by David and Henry is the last one in my list and has the longest duration. Like Henry said, if you drop below 4,000 your dead.

I got interested in the history of cam design. According the Speedy Bill Smith (Speedway Motors) the real innovators after WWII were Ed Winfield and Collins of Harmon-Collins (see the book "Souping the Stock Engine). He said their designs were heavily copied by the others. I think Kas's cams were designed by someone from Harmon-Collins.

I certainly don't have the experience of many others on this list, but I'll contribute a few comments on what Rick has said. Cams is a subject that is mysterious (Rick said "black art") to many, so it is easy for them to be fooled. There is nothing mysterious about it. I agree that most people put to much emphasis on peak HP rather than the entire range you will operate in.
 - Larry 

On 1/22/2023 6:46 AM, David Gott via Fot wrote:

Hi FOT, 

I used Larry Young’s site to learn a lot about cams and their relative effects on engine performance with some crude engine modeling software, in the quest to pick the right cam for my wants, building a strong mid range engine, trying not to spin over 6,000 if I can help it with a stock based crank.    Does anyone happen to have the specs on the Gillander’s #24 they could share?  Just curious.  Maybe it’s at the pointy end of the list below?

Rick McCurdy, here’s the cam reference list Larry put together, below, and I’d sure be curious what Rick Parent’s software would say I should have done!!!  

Triumph Cams <https://www.tildentechnologies.com/Cams/TriumphCams.html>  

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