[Fot] TR4 transmission

Wed Jun 19 16:13:54 MDT 2019

The conversion to ball bearings sdeems very interesting. What size of ball bearings can be used? Doesn't it weaken the part on wich the countergears are mounted too much? 
Marcel 

Van: "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Aan: "Geoff Byrne" <gkbyrne at optusnet.com.au>, "fot" <fot at autox.team.net> 
Verzonden: Woensdag 19 juni 2019 23:53:37 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] TR4 transmission 

I started converting our race boxes to taper rollers on the layshaft almost 30 years ago. Totally agree with Geoff that the replacement syncro rings are generally very poor, but as yet, have not found the need or $ to convert to a dog box, nice as that might be. I luckily still have a small stash of original Leyland ST close ratio gears but as they dry up, will be forced into “plan B” 

Terry 

Another down under racer 

From: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Geoff Byrne via Fot 
Sent: 19 June 2019 21:14 
To: van.mulders.marcel at telenet.be 
Cc: fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
Subject: Re: [Fot] TR4 transmission 

I’ve been racing my tr6 for over 15 years and gave up,on the synchro box due to the inability to get good quality rings. Swapped to a quaiffe dog box and ended up buying another one from Vessey and a third from bustuck . Having experienced several counter shaft needle bearing failures which can be very costly I have developed a box with ball bearings on a fixed lay shaft. Does involved a bit of machining but as I have my own machine shop and the time it not a problem for me. After four years of solid racing the ball bearing are still perfect. Not for everyone but bullet proof. 

If anyone is interested in details email me 

Regards 

Geoff Byrne TR6 racer down under 

Sent from my iPad 

On 19 Jun 2019, at 6:14 am, van.mulders.marcel--- via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 

Bastuck announced a new batch of dog box gear sets that should have been available from february 2019 onwards. It took longer, but these sets are available now. 

Marcel. 

Van: "fot" < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > 
Aan: "Tony Drews" < [ mailto:tony at tonydrews.com | tony at tonydrews.com ] > 
Cc: "fot" < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > 
Verzonden: Dinsdag 18 juni 2019 18:54:23 
Onderwerp: Re: [Fot] TR4 transmission 

I would add that you can buy individual parts for the quaife should you wear out a hub or chip a tooth . Each component has laser engraved part numbers . 

T 

Sent from my iPhone 

On Jun 18, 2019, at 9:20 AM, Tony Drews via Fot < [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] > wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Nice summary! I don't have much to add other than the Quaife gearset uses substantial needle bearings inside each of the gears, much larger input to mainshaft needle bearing, steel thrust washers within the stack. Work of art. Layshaft still uses semi-stock bearings. 

When I blew up my tranny I ended up going with the Quaife and really like it. No synchros to break, shifts are lightning quick, gear ratios work well. 

Cheers, Tony Drews 

On 6/18/2019 9:24 AM, Robert Lang via Fot wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Hi, 

Those are THE questions, aren't they? 

Okay - Quaife has a straight-cut gear set that uses dog-rings, no synchros. Big $$$, 1600 UK pounds. Quaife just ran off a set and the one source that I know of in the UK can get them: 

[ http://www.vessey-classic-car-services.co.uk/triumph-gear-kit.htm#.XQjuu3t7n64 | Dennis Vessey - Quaife gear kits for Triumph TRs ] 

		Dennis Vessey - Quaife gear kits for Triumph TRs 

metatags generator 

Vesseys Triumph TR Dog-Engagement Gear Kit - developed with Quaife 

Note, if you decide to go that route, please contact me, I've been in contact with the vendor and I'm trying to place an order for this gearset. Maybe we can save some shipping if we get a couple of sets. 

Note too that Bastuck has dog box gear sets including one using the J-type overdrive. When I contacted them last fall, they had none in stock and there was no production scheduled. 

Failing that option, there's the "Dolomite Close Ratio Gearset". This consists of a different input shaft and main 3rd gear along with the corresponding layshaft gears. You need to work the case to get these to pit, but they work great. These are helical gears. I've used this setup for around 20 years, and it is really really good. Note: for the best total gear ratio option, get a later TR6 gearbox with the 16-tooth 1st laygear. 

Now, the drawback to the helical gears is apparently excessive thrust forces and they effect the layshaft thrust washers as well as the layshaft needle bearings. If you make torque and you have any end float for the layshaft, you will spin the thrust washers and wreck the case. There are some workarounds to compensate for excessive end float. 

Note too that because of torque multiplication, the layshaft needle bearings on the 1st gear end of the layshaft get beat really, really hard. One fix is to install a double bearing on the layshaft (or buy a new one from Moss or another source) that is set up for the double bearing. I've had Quantum Mechanics install the double bearings, they seem to work better than the stock setup. But even with that setup, the layshaft still gets pounded and you need to keep an eye on it. 

As you may know, a lot of the racers are gravitating away from the stock and/or modified Triumph gearboxes mostly because the quality consistency of replacement parts is all over the place and you need to know what you're getting to spot the differences. That said, frequent oil changes and paying attention to the detritus in the oil, you can stay ahead of problems. 

If you're going to build a good gearbox, it will cost you as much or more than some of the conversions out there, hence a lot of folks switch to Toyota/T5/Rocket, etc. 

Hopefully you'll get other good advice on this list, but that's where I'm at right now (too). The Quaife gearset in the TR gearbox seems like the most "vintage" solution, but ALL of the options have pluses and minuses. In the spirit of full transparency, I'm also looking at Super T10 transmissions which are the same as the old Muncie "Rock Crusher" and there is a gearset available with a 2.43 1st, 1.63 2nd, 1.23 3rd and 1 4th which is pretty close to the Dolomite Sprint setup. And the gearbox is 70 pounds which is really close to the stock box. Also, if you want to dish out more $$$, Gear Vendors has an overdrive that bolts to the T-10, I haven't researched that enough to see if there are any particulars, but it is an option, albeit around $3k. But you get a BRAND NEW overdrive. Just sayin. A drawback to the Super T10 is that you will need to make or source a bell housing, but that is do-able with a combo of a trashed TR gearbox, a competent machinist and more $$$. ;-) 

Regards, 

Bob Lang 

339-927-4489 

On Tuesday, June 18, 2019, 9:02:31 AM EDT, Mike Deweerd via Fot [ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | <fot at autox.team.net> ] wrote: 

Amici 

What is the preferred gearbox for the TR4 non overdrive and where is the best source for getting such 

I’m looking at the pros and cons of the straight cut gear set vs the close ratio gear set (I’m assuming the close ratio is still helical gears) 

Please chime in with preferences and opinions 

Cheers 

Mike Deweerd #77 

Sent from my iPhone 

_______________________________________________ 

[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 

Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive%20 | http://autox.team.net/archive
 ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 

Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yahoo.com | 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertlangtr6@yahoo.com ] 

_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 
[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 
Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com | http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com ] 

BQ_END

BQ_BEGIN

_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing@msn.com | 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/horizonracing@msn.com ] 

BQ_END

_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be | 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be ] 

BQ_END

BQ_BEGIN

_______________________________________________ 
[ mailto:fot at autox.team.net | fot at autox.team.net ] 

[ http://www.fot-racing.com/ | http://www.fot-racing.com ] 

Donate: [ http://www.team.net/donate.html | http://www.team.net/donate.html ] 
Archive: [ http://autox.team.net/archive | http://autox.team.net/archive ] [ http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot | http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot ] 
Unsubscribe/Manage: [ http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne@optushome.com.au | 
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gkbyrne@optushome.com.au ] 

BQ_END

_______________________________________________ 
fot at autox.team.net 

http://www.fot-racing.com 

Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html 
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot 
Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/van.mulders.marcel@telenet.be 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://autox.team.net/pipermail/fot/attachments/20190620/6a39cbb4/attachment-0001.htm>